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Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

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Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#181

To the folks particularly in US obsessed about driverless cars, why don't you instead focus on public transport, which is by default "driverless" for millions of people if you ignore a couple of metro/train drivers per 1000s of people. The point of a driverless car, from what I understand, is having end-to-end connectivity without the need to drive which is pain. I live in a place where public transport already has l…

> I live in a place where public transport already has last mile connectivity and I walk the rest of the way. Never owned a car and never plan to.

Is this place completely car free? Because otherwise, replacing the remaining cars with self-driving cars would have significant benefits:

* Less space needed for parking.

* Pedestrians and cyclists can move safely because cars follow the traffic rules.

* Less cost for police, first responders and medical care because of fewer traffic accidents.

If my city replaced all human-driven cars with self-driving cars today, I would actually cycle and walk more. Because I would feel safer to do so.

And I am surely not the only one.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#182

To the folks particularly in US obsessed about driverless cars, why don't you instead focus on public transport, which is by default "driverless" for millions of people if you ignore a couple of metro/train drivers per 1000s of people. The point of a driverless car, from what I understand, is having end-to-end connectivity without the need to drive which is pain. I live in a place where public transport already has l…

As a matter of fact, even places with good public transport, even here in perfect Europe, still have plenty of dangerous, human-driven cars.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the areas where it's not profitable enough, it won't get set up. And we can guarantee that states and cities will leave huge gaps.

And people would share drive or whatever it takes to make up for that.

Lots of people have no one else going near their workplace at nearly the same time. Shared drives can't get anywhere near half of people to work.

So you have to fall back on paid trips, and that is too much money for a random shift making anything in the realm of minimum wage. It just doesn't work economically.

Many many areas without sufficient transit will suffer badly.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#184
post #159
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, this seems like an impossible feat at this point. It has been tried, but the cities have evolved in a way where this is just unfeasible. EU cities have mostly been built to be dense around train & bus stations. US cities (besides NY) are extremely large, flat, and spread out. Even if you had public transportation, it would be practically impossible to get from A to B because there are no hotspots besid…

U.S cities were rebuilt to accommodate cars, and there's no reason they can't be rebuilt to undo this damage.

USA has trouble building enough houses as it is, or a single bridge or piece of infrastructure, and you say they can simply rebuild entire cities?

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#185

To the folks particularly in US obsessed about driverless cars, why don't you instead focus on public transport, which is by default "driverless" for millions of people if you ignore a couple of metro/train drivers per 1000s of people. The point of a driverless car, from what I understand, is having end-to-end connectivity without the need to drive which is pain. I live in a place where public transport already has l…

I live in a place where public transport already has last mile connectivity

As do I, but if driverless taxis at even close to the price of public transport became a thing, I would never take a bus ever again.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#186

To the folks particularly in US obsessed about driverless cars, why don't you instead focus on public transport, which is by default "driverless" for millions of people if you ignore a couple of metro/train drivers per 1000s of people. The point of a driverless car, from what I understand, is having end-to-end connectivity without the need to drive which is pain. I live in a place where public transport already has l…

For completion. You actually have real driverless public transport systems functioning for many years now with autonomous metro and rail systems across the world. It is obviously a much easier problem to solve due to its constraints. What is interesting to me is that we have completely altered our transport networks to fit the new paradigm of cars +100 years ago, widening roads, asphalting roads, building motorways,…

> to fit the new paradigm of cars

1. because they brought major improvements to most peoples everyday live, much more then self driving will

2. it fit's the wide landscape of the us perfectly

2. it was pushed (lobbied) by much much more money then any of the self driving car or public transportation movements today (not just Oil and Car industry but also e.g. military for Tanks)

3. it fit the American dream perfectly, everyone can go everywhere, by themself, everyone gets their own house (which in turn is often noticeable far away from city centers so a car is needed) etc.

4. it aligned with a society which moved more from compacter communities to wide spread individualism

5. the US was growing a lot, this meant a lot of potential for changes

7. it aligned with (also in EU) very wide views about what a good future would be and how to get there, e.g. EU cities which grew a ton around 1950 often have (or had) similar problems

8. people where not dependent on walking, switching to cars was viable

9. it was a powerful tool to shape society in many ways, including for suppressing successful minorities by intentionally routing highways right through the middle of them

Today the US isn't growing like that anymore nor can people at all in anyway agree anymore in which direction it should be heading wrt. urban planing. A lot of the grate ideas and shows of wealth and prosperity of the 50th have turned into liabilities. People are so dependent on being able to use cars that it has become a liability for the US where they need to make sure the huge majority of their population can at least somehow somewhat afford a car and gasoline for it, not doing so it not an option. But this leads to a chicken egg problem where for solving some problem you need to change how cars a treated but for changing that you need to first fix the problem. So the only option is to slowly do many small changes but at the same time this makes it much easier for Oil and Car lobbies to hinder the most essential changes.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took how many years just to add one new line?

I believe you are talking about Van Ness BRT. A couple of decades and hundreds of millions of dollars to build a two mile bus lane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Ness_Bus_Rapid_Transit

That also applies. But I was thinking of the Chinatown line that connects with Fourth and King.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took how many years just to add one new line?

I believe you are talking about Van Ness BRT. A couple of decades and hundreds of millions of dollars to build a two mile bus lane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Ness_Bus_Rapid_Transit

LOL.

It's like that cartoon with the swing. "I just wanted someone to paint a line on the road"

https://fisher.osu.edu/blogs/gradlife/2011/11/16/a-simple-sw...

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#189

To the folks particularly in US obsessed about driverless cars, why don't you instead focus on public transport, which is by default "driverless" for millions of people if you ignore a couple of metro/train drivers per 1000s of people. The point of a driverless car, from what I understand, is having end-to-end connectivity without the need to drive which is pain. I live in a place where public transport already has l…

The fact that someone always makes this sort of comment when driverless cars come up is really weird to me. I've never owned a car, use public transit very regularly, and think the state of it in the US is pretty bad and underinvested in. However, that's due to a huge set of systemic factors (political, organizational, spatial, ...) which nobody seems to have made much progress on, and not for lack of trying. Yeah, i…

There’s progress because there’s investment. If dozens of billions were poured into public transport, it would improve dramatically.

How can I be so so sure? Because that’s what a lot of countries have done, China first among many, and their public transport network has dramatically improved.

The main issue is how much the private car industry avoids having to pay for the astounding externalities they generate: pollution, noise, road violence, global warming, microplastic, urban disruption… It’s orders of magnitude more expensive for people around drivers than for drivers.

Re: Waymo says insurance data shows its driverless cars are safer than humans

#190
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that someone always makes this sort of comment when driverless cars come up is really weird to me. I've never owned a car, use public transit very regularly, and think the state of it in the US is pretty bad and underinvested in. However, that's due to a huge set of systemic factors (political, organizational, spatial, ...) which nobody seems to have made much progress on, and not for lack of trying. Yeah, i…

Where I live in Northern England, buses are (amongst other reasons) mostly hampered in their reliability by delays and cancellations caused by sharing roads congested with cars. Here there's an almost palpable attitude of disgust towards using the bus. Almost a me versus the plebs attitude. The car represents the people's private island. It would be slightly improved if people moved from tank-like SUVs to smaller car…

The state of bus services in York is pretty terrible. Traffic (journey times) is one reason, but frequency is the main problem. We’ve got these huge vehicles turning up at most very 45 minutes (even in rush hour) because, I’m guessing, the cost of the driver prohibits more frequent services.

I can’t park my car near my office in town, it’s just too expensive. I mostly cycle the 8km trip, except when the weather is awful.

I’m hoping what we actually get are self driving, smaller, more frequent busses !

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