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Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

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Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#181
This example on python exceptions on their sample queries... The second result is a very opinionated result about exceptions considered and anti pattern https://sobolevn.me/2019/02/python-exceptions-considered-an-...

Maybe this was tweaked to be catchy for developers but I don't think is the right thing to see as the second entry.

If you search for exceptions you want to learn how they work, that is what 99% of the people would need. An entry like this is dangerous for instance if you are just someone trying to learn about them.

IMO this is a red flag about the quality for a search engine. Maybe they are just targeting seasoned tech people who would see this content interesting. But definitely not a search engine for the masses.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#182
post #61
post #56

Just chiming in here. My experience is: * Google search was good, but has been steadily getting worse. Over the last 1-3 years it's become actively unplesant. * DDG solves a lot of privacy issues, but the search quality is strictly worse than Google. I know people who use it preferentially, and I respect that, but personally Google search is already so bad than opting for something even worse is hard for me to accept…

Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? That it doesn't exploit you in every way possible is commendable, but stating that it "solves the privacy issues" is a long stretch.

Seriously, on its face it's worse than google privacy wise because of the payment thing. Accept cash payment as some email providers and VPNs or stop telling people to trust you. And claiming Bitcoin changes anything privacy wise for the layman just blares red flags all over the place.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#183

I really can't make clear enough how good Kagi is. I've tried all the competing emerging search engines as they've had their 5 minutes of fame. They don't compare to kagi. it's the first google rip and replace I've ever tried. Pony up the $10 a month and put your money where your mouth is on "let's pay for products instead of being sold to advertisers."

Ten dollars a month!? Ha ha ha, no.

I have no buyers remourse.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#184

> It’s impossible to both provide the best search results and try to optimize for the highest amount of ad-clicks. And if you’re a public company with an ad-based business model, you are legally required to optimize for the latter. The enduring (and incorrect) myth of how fiduciary responsibility works.

Could you elaborate?

Short term value isn’t the only thing that matters. As CEO, you could say, “Increasing ad-revenue at the expense of everything else will increase profits, but I believe it would be bad for the long term health of the company.”

The shareholders might not like it, and the board might fire you, but if you’ve acted in good faith you haven’t violated fiduciary responsibility.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#185
post #104
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, and apparently you can also ask it to block shit like pinterest from your search results?

Yes. Quite useful. Also groups listacle spam ("top 10 X" type articles).

If they could group ecommerce sites in the same way they group listicles, that would be damn handy. (Just identifying sites with payment forms would go along way). It's not that I don't want ecommerce sites, it's just that sometimes I'm in research mode and sometimes I'm in shopping mode.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#186
post #56

Just chiming in here. My experience is: * Google search was good, but has been steadily getting worse. Over the last 1-3 years it's become actively unplesant. * DDG solves a lot of privacy issues, but the search quality is strictly worse than Google. I know people who use it preferentially, and I respect that, but personally Google search is already so bad than opting for something even worse is hard for me to accept…

I love Kagi, too. I’ve mostly switched over. The one main thing I still find myself using Google for though is sports scores. That’s one thing I wish Kagi had. I love just searching “bears” or “colts” on Google on a NFL game day and immediately getting the live score at the top of the results. Kagi doesn’t have that feature yet, and I hope they add it.

I honestly hope that they don’t. You’ll never cover all sports and you’ll never have global coverage, all while sucking up a ton of developer resources. Focus on search.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#187
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could provide screen shots or a writeup of HOW they are better that would be helpful. Kogi fans just seems to say its better without really any examples. Not saying its not better, but no one has really shown how it is better.

I haven’t opened Google in a few years but I’ll try to remember to compare some results and provide you screenshots tomorrow or this weekend. I’m surprised others haven’t already done this!

> I haven’t opened Google in a few years but I’ll try to remember to compare some results and provide you screenshots tomorrow or this weekend. I’m surprised others haven’t already done this!

I've seen a lot of people give concrete examples on how Kagi is worse in different situations, but yeah no real good solid examples of how its better. If you're doing a compare, please compare with DuckDuckGo as well. That is the one I use and am most interested in. Thank you!

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#188

Looking forward to the inevitable "Kagi sells user data" investigative report. The simple truth is that unless they make themselves explicitly liable to users if they are ever caught doing this, that the irresistable urge to monetize user data will tempt even the most well-meaning firm into sin. The ONLY solution is to make 'sinning' an existential threat to the firm. IANAL but I believe this can be done if ownership…

I work at Kagi. This is a very reasonable fear to have. We do actually not store the data, but of course you'd need to take me at my word for this. That said, if we did lie or change that, we'd be in immediate breach of our privacy policy ( https://kagi.com/privacy ), and as a result be a very easy target for a lawsuit. Given that we're intentionally not VC backed, between the horrible press this would be and the act…

Having read your privacy agreement, I don't see where the threat is existential if you are in breach. I think that the knowledge of engineers of the judicial system, both criminal and civil, is very naive. You can sue anyone over anything at any time - you don't need valid grounds. It also doesn't mean that if you win it matters.

Your privacy policy has lots of feel-good language that actually doesn't mean anything - along the lines of the classic "We value your privacy" statement that firms often make. When you analyze it, you find it means nothing. There are no actionable clauses. For example, if you are in breach of "Anonymous logs are aggregated with GCP's logging tools, retained for 30 days." what are the enumerated damages? A counter-party would have to prove show BOTH that you are in breach AND then real damages , which is difficult in this case, and entirely misses the point. E.g. if you sell 1M user data records for $.001 each, and a user has on average 10 records on them, the real damages are $.01, but your firm made $100k on the transaction. I don't see a limit to class action (or forced arbitration) so that's good; but good luck building out that class - especially since you'll resist sharing user data with the class action plaintiff, using the same privacy policy as a shield!

(This is the other trick of privacy agreements, apart from not actually saying anything: the stuff that is measurable is unenforceable).

It's time that the public stop seeing moonbeams and rainbows in these matters. Do you think that a lender will be satisfied with a debtor statement "I value paying back my debts, and will never be late!"? If not, then why are we mollified by similar statements by software firms made to us? What is measurable has no teeth; what has teeth is not measurable.

It's a very dirty trick.

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Kagi. This is a very reasonable fear to have. We do actually not store the data, but of course you'd need to take me at my word for this. That said, if we did lie or change that, we'd be in immediate breach of our privacy policy ( https://kagi.com/privacy ), and as a result be a very easy target for a lawsuit. Given that we're intentionally not VC backed, between the horrible press this would be and the act…

Having read your privacy agreement, I don't see where the threat is existential if you are in breach. I think that the knowledge of engineers of the judicial system, both criminal and civil, is very naive. You can sue anyone over anything at any time - you don't need valid grounds. It also doesn't mean that if you win it matters. Your privacy policy has lots of feel-good language that actually doesn't mean anything -…

If you think we should word the privacy policy differently, please do submit some feedback on kagifeedback.org with the specifics - we have changed it in the past through exactly this process. It has been written by engineers, mostly for engineers at the beginning. I'm sure we can improve the wording to make it more binding, we're not trying to squirrel away from it. If you have enough legal knowledge to harden it, we'd welcome the contribution :)

Re: Kagi finally let me lay Google Search to rest

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe try reading more than one sentence. "We care about data protection: We will be good stewards of any personal information you share with us. We do not log or associate searches with an account. More at our privacy policy." literally on the main page. Smh.

That's great but really misses the point. People sign up for Kagi because they want better search results. Any privacy issues are largely peripheral.

That's me. I do love that Kagi is probably much more private than other engines, but the real draw for me was that it's a search engine that actually works well. Bottom line, that's what I'm paying for.

If Kagi became a bad actor with my data, that would just make them like the majority of other search engines, so big picture, I'd not be any worse off. And I'd still have access to a search engine that lets me find what I'm looking for without a lot of struggle.

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