Live data from Hacker News

The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

moneywise.com

181–190 of 1001 posts

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#181
post #139

I don't wish homelessness upon anyone but you have to recognize that it was the baby boomers that created this situation. We, as a society, are desensitized to state violence. The state withholding basic necessities so a few can profit is state violence. In the wealthiest country on Earth there is absolutely no justification for anyone not having shelter and adequate food and water. The homeowners who vote in these w…

Adequate food and water and shelter is available to everyone. We spend billions on it every year. People choose not to access it either due to mental illness, drug/alcohol addiction, or some other antisocial or personal reason. And although there’s help for those issues I’d agree more could be done, especially for the vast numbers of mentally ill that walk amongst us. We do have a safety net though. You are advocatin…

No, we don't. I'll take your comment in good faith though.

When people talk about homelessness they often refer to people living in the streets. Like an iceberg though, this is just the visible part of homelessness. Before you get to this point you go through several stages. The first stage of housing insecurity is couchsurfing and staying a few days here and there with relatives and friends. At some point this dries up and you move onto the next stage: living in your car. This last until your car gets towed or stolen or torched and you can't afford to fix it. At this point you are now on the streets. Before this you may have been able to hold down a job. Now it gets incredibly difficult.

As for providing housing, you don't specify what but I suepct you're talking about shelters. Many homeless people prefer to live on the streets. Why? Shelters tend to be highly restrictive, have limited availability and be incredibly unsafe. You might have to be in for curfew at like 3pm. You will be in a large room with people who may be mentally unwell and/or may have weapons. SA is a real risk. Having your stuff stolen is a huge risk. So after staying there for 12 hours you may then have to go to some religious service and then get fed, maybe.

You are right that a lot of money does get spent on this problem without it going anywhere. There is an awful lot of rent-seeking that goes on here as well as general corruption (eg [1][2][3]).

What we need is a housing-first policy. That is, provide permanent private shelter. According to HUD, it would require $20 billion to end homelessness [4]. Not $20 billion a year. Just $20 billion.

We also need to address to main cause of homelessness: the cost of housing. It's not drugs or mental illness that cause most people to become homeless. It's being unable to afford housing, even while employed.

[1]: https://sfstandard.com/2022/11/17/city-audit-finds-serious-p...

[2]: https://deal.town/san-francisco-chronicle/update-sf-official...

[3]: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/stor...

[4]: https://aah-inc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/whomeless.pdf

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The centralisation in real estate is on the gov-backed mortgage side. We should end the thirty year mortgage and require home owners to purchase debt in the private market.

I am so glad to hear somebody proposing this! I support these ideas 100%, though I had not been bold enough to say it before. Ending the mortgage interest tax deduction would also be a good move. It does nothing but subsidize larger mortgages and asset price inflation.

I think these are probably good ideas but terrible first moves. We need to build a lot more housing before doing things that'll make a lot of people a lot less able to afford the houses they already own or purchase other housing.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pithy, contrarian slogan, not a statement of fact. "Affordable Housing" is a term of art with a specific definition, and yes, it really exists, all over these United States. Also, if you want to use it colloquially, then housing is, by definition, affordable for most of the people who live in housing and are not running a spending deficit.

What is that specific definition? It seems in many cases the term is used to AVOID being pinned to any specific definition.

Affordable housing is defined by the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) as housing that does not require a household to spend more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs. For rental housing, these costs include monthly rent and utility payments; for owner-occupied housing, these costs include mortgage payments and additional expenses associated with homeownership. A household that spends more than 30 percent of its gross monthly income on housing costs is considered “cost-burdened.”

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#185

One minor nit, people in their 50’s and early 60’s would be GenX not boomers.

That's a fairly important fact rather than just a nit.

Replying to myself. The article is also kind of incorrect when it says boomers are 57 to 75 as the youngest boomers are going to be 59 I think (1946-64)

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#187
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how blatantly age-based discrimination is so free flowing. Understand something, when you discriminate against ANYONE, you are condoning the discrimination you may or may not be against. You don't have to like it.

There are all sorts of generational stereotyping and critiquing that go on, but what does it only become "discrimination" when the bad age-related effects of Boomers are pointed out? You never hear this overly cautious "don't discriminate!" Warning when Zoomers are critiqued. Similarly, age-based discrimination is illegal in the workplace, but only against older people. It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on…

I treat all people as individuals and would make the same comment to reply to a bunch of stereotypes of zoomers as well.

My reply already states this in other terms. It's impossible to be for equitable treatment without seeing individuals instead of groups.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#188

There are five workers supporting every retiree, and this is still happening. If you are approaching 40, there will be about two workers supporting you when you retire. I’m thinking this is the start of something much bigger.

Yes, this is why the "it's immigration" comments are incredibly naive. Immigration is trying to prop up this system.

Doesn't seem to work in Canada.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#189
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're in this mess because of unregulated capitalism, but sure, removing even more regulations will definitely solve it! How can there be regulations to remove if it's unregulated? There are hundreds of thousands of regulations.

Insufficiently regulated, then. The parent comment looks at regulations on home building (zoning, etc) that are harmful, and extrapolates from that that all regulations are harmful and that the root cause of inequality is regulation preventing poor people from starting venture businesses. Because everyone knows that the startup world is definitely not inequitable at all, where some people walk away with hundreds of m…

> Insufficiently regulated, then.

I don't think this is necessarily the case either. In the cases where there are harmful regulations, the answer isn't "more regulations". You might well say "incorrectly regulated", and put the blame where it belongs: on the people writing the regulations.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not supply and demand for houses - there are plenty enough to go around (though often in the wrong place). The issue is that a sizeable underclass is being created that have no wealth, not least because what wealth they did have has been funnelled to the very wealthy. For example, medical bills. For example student loans. For example zero interest rates with zero wage inflation meaning accommodation cost…

Most Metro areas do not have enough affordable housing. It's well established that local governments cannot build enough new affordable housing, partly because any contractor that bids goes way over the value of a private housing venture. The idea that there's enough housing but "in the wrong place" is like saying there's plenty of jobs, they're just in third world countries and Scandinavia. The idea that the solutio…

I wonder why the Robin Hood issue is never a problem when money is moved in the opposite direction :-)
Post reply on HN