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Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

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Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#181
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent is expensive in Berlin for sure, but supermarkets are still way cheaper than Austria

A lot better too. Rewe has ton of options and quality food compared to billa. But I think the supermarkets in germany are better than anywhere else in EU.

I agree that most Rewes are really good. I'm from the UK and Rewe is comparable in quality and selection to the absolute best supermarkets in the UK like M&S and Waitrose, but much cheaper than M&S and more readily available than Waitrose.

That said, I've definitely been to a couple of poor quality Rewes, though most often this is in rural areas or on the outskirts of major cities.

Overall I prefer EDEKA for a few reasons.

Generally I think Germany does well to have a strict two-tier system: there are supermarkets, and then there are "discounters" (lidl, aldi, penny, netto, etc.) and they are very different and have very different aims. The good supermarkets feel free to sell whatever they want because they are not competing in price with the discounters, since most Germans are accustomed to shopping at both lidl and Rewe in the same visit. There is also a third tier, "Bioladen", which often have really good high quality organic food for a reasonable price.

I have to criticise the discounters though, specifically lidl and aldi, they do not give you baskets, only carts, and one of my local lidls had a policy for a few months of not allowing you in the shop unless you had a cart!!

German food shopping is very complex overall, but the quality and range of options is impressive.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most famously, Red Bull, which is made in Austria but it's actually cheaper after it gets shipped to Germany than in the country it's made in. Insane. Austrians are being flogged. Germany feels like the only EU country with some sane competition in the retail sector.

Red Bull is not made in Austria, at least not necessarily. The European company is headquartered there, but its business model is largely just owning the IP. The filling of Red Bull cans is outsourced to Rauch, which produces at least some of the product in Switzerland.

The swiss-made Red Bull is exclusively for non-EU markets. It is a customs/cheap water/nearby headquarters thing. A lot of Red Bull is made in Austria too.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#183
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the profit margins for Austrian retailers? In the US, all the retailers earn razor thin profit margins (except Home Depot/Lowes), indicating if prices were lower, the businesses would fail, or at best become charities. Edit: for the one Austrian retailer I could find numbers for, they are not pretty. Not sure how the retailer can lower prices without going out of business if they already have sub 1% profit m…

We're talking about grocery stores here, not just general retailers. I have a really hard time believing that US grocery stores are operating on razor-thin margins here, given how extremely expensive groceries are (when adjusting for income, other cost of living etc.) compared to e.g. Germany. One problem of the Austrian grocery store market is that there's just way too many branches per capita (compared to the other…

It is all public information. Plus, logically, it is a low barrier to entry business with zero moat. There are lots of sellers willing to sell for barely above cost.

These are the two biggest grocery only retailers in the US:

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/KR/kroger/profit-m...

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/ACI/albertsons/pro...

This is the single biggest grocery retailer in the US, but not solely grocery:

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/WMT/walmart/net-pr...

Costco obviously moves a ton of groceries.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/COST/costco/profit...

Target now sells a wide range of groceries in all of its stores too:

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TGT/target/net-pro...

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#184
post #154

[dupe]

The title of the original submission is just “Inflation in Austria” [1], it did not spark my interest. This submission caught my eye because of its more descriptive title and the mention of scraping. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37530314

Yeah, that title was very uninspired. Especially that probably some don't know where Austria is on the map.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#185

Governments should mandate published prices for all goods sold in supermarkets, it would be good for competition and almost trivial for the companies to publish CSV files with barcode, price, start and end dates. Of course doing do would be disastrous for the supermarkets, so I can imagine they would fight and lobby politicians vigorously.

Supermarkets seem like an undeserving target for this scrutiny. Profit margins for grocery stores are only 1-3%, so they're hardly engaging in price gouging. The average U.S. household spends less than 10% of its monthly budget on groceries and other food.[0] This number is half of what it was in the middle of the 20th Century, and probably lower than any time in history.[1] [0] https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-h…

They're also most likely to indulge in pricing shenanigans, as the article illustrates. It's not so much scrutiny as price transparency.

But I think it should apply to all larger retailers.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices should be higher for a variety of reasons and they have historically already been higher. It's not just the VAT but particularly super market density, lack of competition on the market, general cost of doing business in the country. This is a home made problem for the most part, but there is very little appetite to do something about it. Austria in many ways is drowning in very expensive regulation, has high t…

Excuse me, but what expensive regulation and high grocery store workers' taxation are you talking about that's responsible for making prices so much higher than in Germany?

In Germany while the taxes for a typical full time grocery store worker would be higher, Germany has an extraordinary amount of "mini jobber" working in grocery stores which drives down the cost. Expensive regulation is for instance the Ladenzeitgesetz which restricts a retailer to a regulated number of hours a week with very little freedom to operate the business. Stores need to close before 9, are only allowed to open Saturdays until 18:00 and are restricted to 72 hours total a week and no Sunday trading. Additionally they are subject to very stringent rules and requirements that are untypical to grocery stores in the rest of the European Union from before they can even open a store (Betriebsanlagengenehmigung).

The end result is an incredible expensive market with very little competition compared to Germany.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not reflect actual reality. Retailers have answered plenty times why they are charging higher prices in Austria compared to Germany and the arguments are hard to ignore (higher cost of doing business, higher taxes, higher density of super markets, more rural delivery requirements etc.). Specifically on that point: > extra wages(lower than Germany FYI) That is incorrect, the cost of an employee in the grocer…

Which higher taxes? Which is higher cost of doing business? Please be specific, otherwise it's just parroting the fake corporate propaganda of the supermarket chains.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37536203

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#188
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, about 6 years ago, the 3 big telecom operators in Austria raised the prices together at the exact same time, and the government body in charge of overseeing these things said they have no proof that the 3 operators colluded together for price fixing and it could just be a coincidence, case closed. I would love a citation for that.

German-only [1], but Google Translate gets the gist of it [2]. [1] https://helpv2.orf.at/stories/1684683/index.html [2] https://helpv2-orf-at.translate.goog/stories/1684683/index.h...

If we are talking about that story, that is 12 years ago, not 6 and relates to a different fee structure, not raising of prices. So while I agree that this is a terrible development, I'm not sure that's what we're discussing here. More specifically after 2011 there was a huge downwards pressure on the market coming from increasing competition from virtual operators with decreasing prices.

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is evidence that the prices they charge in Austria are often significantly higher than in Germany The cost of doing business in Austria is significantly higher for supermarkets. On the one hand because Austria has many more supermarkets to begin with per chain, secondly because of the high cost of labor in the country. Comparing countries that way is not trivial.

Where exactly is this extra higher cost you're talking about?

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37536203

Re: Tracking Austrian grocery prices by scraping store sites

#190

Governments should mandate published prices for all goods sold in supermarkets, it would be good for competition and almost trivial for the companies to publish CSV files with barcode, price, start and end dates. Of course doing do would be disastrous for the supermarkets, so I can imagine they would fight and lobby politicians vigorously.

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