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Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

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Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#181

Post by varispeed »

bfeynman wrote: post #2

This behavior of legal loopholes to discount workers should be made illegal. The definition of sub-contractor has got to change and/or have laws/policies in place that actually make sense in a sub contractor relationship. These are shell companies that spin up and exclusively deliver for amazon, they aren't gig workers delivering when they want, they have strict quotas.

It's not going to happen because of existence of corporations like Infosys that do exactly that, except with IT workers.

edit: In the UK, we done worst of both worlds - exempted big corporations and "sub-contractors" can still be hired, but they don't have any employment rights.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#182

Post by Draiken »

adfskghnmionio wrote: post #167
epivosism wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like just the opposite of a capitalist monopoly from the other side. Why would I want any party to control the way a market works? You'll get stagnation both ways. see many historical examples where both monopolies and unions refused change and were overturned, leading to failures. i.e. Detroit I want a functioning competitive market where workers and firms compete and have to adjust and innovate to fit w…

A capitalist monopoly is a conspiracy in favor of the firm. Unions are a conspiracy in favor of the people.

Exactly. And somehow people fail to see a difference between human needs and the needs of a profit seeking machine.

Without unions individuals basically NEVER have bargaining power. And of course it's not like you can choose to not work. At least not for the crushing majority of people, I guess.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#183

Post by Zetice »

bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile...

For some reason this disturbs me, like something an NPC in a cyberpunk dystopia masquerade ball level would say, to underscore how little they think of the people who serve them...

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#184

Post by yojo »

snoman wrote: post #45
taeric wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also be happy with better base level care for everyone. Would start requiring more taxes on corporations, largely because that is where the money is siphoning to. But would be far more efficient than the current efforts we do where every time a new rule is made, bypasses are found.

As long as the bills proposing tax increases also contain where the tax money is going to be allocated, I'd be all for it. America's track record for directing tax money towards the public good, is poor.

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. I disagree with the idea that everything be pre-allocated, but you make the point in a civil way.

Earmarking everything is almost impossible to do right. Tax revenue streams go up or down from forces outside the legislature’s control. If there’s a bumper crop of corporate receipts, the right move might be to save them in a rainy day general fund for disasters, or when times are lean, etc.

Put another way, if we can’t seem to spend money well doing it in an annual budgeting process, I don’t know how we will do any better trying to do the same thing years in advance when the tax is passed.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#185

Post by pc86 »

Zetice wrote: post #169
macinjosh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a middle ground of basic social interaction between failing to acknowledge a party in a transaction and being forced to do an impromptu dance for them. In the case of Cold Stone Creamery though I agree, those kids should not have to sing for tips.

No there isn't; you pay for a service you get that service. Let these people live their lives, society is already massively underpaying them. We should have to apologize to them when they hand us our meal, that should be the "basic social interaction".

> that should be the "basic social interaction"

Well, it's not.

If "living your life" involves being rude to people and ignoring even the most basic social courtesies, you're an asshole. Part of the service people pay for when they go anywhere is not dealing with rude employees, and yes ignoring basic social courtesies is rude. If you're in Europe you get to have the European social courtesies of minimal interaction, no small talk, etc. If you're in North America you don't get that, sorry.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#186

Post by ska »

jtreminio wrote: post #28
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> music blasting Far be it from me to say a driver can't listen to music while they are at work. > the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month Good. Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources. > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile This is such a weird American fixation. Here, tak…

> Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources.

Washing them is a "canary in the coal mine". You don't need them sparkling obviously, but they need regular maintenance. And with a fleet under heavy use, that's often measured in weeks, not months.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#187

Post by datavirtue »

jtreminio wrote: post #28
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> music blasting Far be it from me to say a driver can't listen to music while they are at work. > the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month Good. Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources. > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile This is such a weird American fixation. Here, tak…

I've witnessed the music blasting. It is a nuisance and easily a violation of any towns' ordinance. If their exhaust was that loud the vehicle would be down until it is repaired. Both are equally embarrassing to the company.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#188

Post by Steltek »

josefresco wrote: post #53
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

"lazily toss a package on the porch and walk away" I tried to help an Amazon driver by taking the package from him at the edge of my driveway. He stopped me, told me he had to take a photo of it sitting on my property first. He was very serious about this. I doubt this behavior is from these contracted drivers unless the photo requirement is new and your experience is not.

This comment and sibling comments read like bizarro world for me. I've never seen anything close to this level of attention to detail.

I've had my packaged signed for by "mailbox". This is practically the default message for me.

I've been on vacation and seen "Handed directly to a resident". Which would be more disturbing if I didn't already know the whole system was broken. In this case, the package was sitting on the front steps.

(Edit: These are all Amazon branded van deliveries, fwiw).

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#189

Post by DiggyJohnson »

bugglebeetle wrote: post #156
coldtea wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At what income level does one need to start treating the customer, that is enabling one to have a job, like a real human being? At a sufficient enough and above. Below that the Clerks (as in the Kevin Smith movie) treatment is good enough. In any case, "treating like a real human being" and putting on a show of smiles and friendliness US-style, is not even close to being the same thing. In "real" human interaction,…

Exactly. There’s something fundamentally sadistic about American culture, I expect inherited from its legacy of slavery, where customers demand that workers perform a frightened but also “joyful” subservience to them as evidence that they’re getting their money’s worth.

This is an unbelievable take that I suspect if fueled by an over extrapolation of online culture and the news. Get a grip.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#190

Post by datavirtue »

passwordoops wrote: post #148
jtreminio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> music blasting Far be it from me to say a driver can't listen to music while they are at work. > the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month Good. Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources. > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile This is such a weird American fixation. Here, tak…

Weird how a conversation that should be about the richest corporations shirking their responsibilities to employees is hijacked by someone complaining about fake smiles instead

Exactly...how is this thread taking up half the post?
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