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The past is not true

sive.rs

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Re: The past is not true

#181

Post by nobody9999 »

ChrisSD wrote: post #99
yakcyll wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this may refer to the second law of thermodynamics - entropy cannot decrease over time in an isolated system. One could argue the entire universe is one.

But our local "system" has a gigantic miasma of incandescent plasma on our doorstep. The Earth itself should not need to worry about entropy for a long while yet...

>But our local "system" has a gigantic miasma of incandescent plasma on our doorstep. The Earth itself should not need to worry about entropy for a long while yet...

I interpret GP's reference to thermodynamics/entropy as generating the "arrow (asymmetry) of time,"[0]

Which exists (at least for us matter-based beings) as remembering the "past," but not the "future," and local fluctuations in entropy don't affect that at all.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

Re: The past is not true

#182

Post by MisterBastahrd »

munificent wrote: post #172
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Images play a big role in how events are perceived. Whenever there's a natural disaster you tend to see all of the worst examples, even if they're not fully representative of the event. But I think it's sometimes necessary in order to get people to take these events seriously, since they can negatively affect so many people. Otherwise people might look at images where some things look normal and think that those who…

As someone who has experienced several serious floods, this is my favorite example of imagery's ability to craft a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgm3_jzcNm4 Floodwaters tend to stir up a lot of dirt and mud, so the water is usually totally opaque. That makes it very hard to tell how deep it is. A lot of overhead views of flooded neighborhoods look completely disastrous, but in reality it's just a foot or t…

People also completely underestimate how much force flowing water has. It's hard enough to walk in waist-deep water when it's still. Somehow they see a few feet of rushing water and they think "hey, I'm gonna drive my car through that"

Re: The past is not true

#183

Post by amp108 »

metacritic12 wrote: post #166
miiiiiike wrote: post #134

He did the right thing by seeking her out to apologize. The rest doesn’t hold water. “There’s a small chance that the chaos and ruin I’ve visited upon others may not be as bad as as those people made me think. Thanks, I knew my negligence/malice wasn’t that big a deal.” The worst people that I’ve ever met would love for that to be true. They’ll stab people in the back or work to damage people’s careers and when you c…

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

Re: The past is not true

#184

Post by MisterBastahrd »

throwaway106382 wrote: post #154
tppiotrowski wrote: post #96

I had this moment during the Covid pandemic. I read a lot of history and I saw pictures of the Spanish influenza and was told it killed more people than WW1. Somehow I pictured the world in the late 1910s with everyone sick and in hospital but now I think it was more like Covid. People got sick and died but life went on and some people were completely unaffected. The world doesn't grind to a halt for world wars and p…

It doesn't help that a lot of "history" is actually just propaganda, for example the infamous "iron lungs in the gym" photo during the polio pandemic.

On the flip side, if you're a Gen Xer, you almost certainly grew up knowing an adult whose health was directly impacted by polio. And if you don't, Mitch McConnell is sitting up there in Congress. One of the reasons he didn't push back so much when they were passing COVID legislation was because of his own experiences as a child.

Re: The past is not true

#185

Post by benjaminwootton »

pharrington wrote: post #152
benjaminwootton wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very surprising to me. Here in the UK, a serious accident where someone broke their spine would be investigated without a shadow of a doubt. They would want to rule out any criminal culpability.

Yeah, the US in general is extremely cavalier with our car culture. Usually the only police involvement when an accident occurs is when they're called to the scene to take a report of the incident. Afterwards, the parties usually just deal with the aftermath themselves and through insurance companies. Even if you have to show up to court, people almost always walk away after pleading "not guilty," because again, the…

It's probably outsourced to the civil system knowing the US.

It's a huge contrast between the US and European approach though.

Re: The past is not true

#186

Post by UncleMeat »

sanderjd wrote: post #165
UncleMeat wrote: post #120

If you are interested in this topic but would like to understand how historians think about things, look into writing about Historiography and Historical Memory. This person appears to just be some guy who describes himself as an entrepreneur and TED speaker. The way we understand the past is a deep topic that is analyzed and discussed by actual professionals constantly . Better to read their writing than this kind o…

This comment reminds me a lot of XKCD "Ten Thousand" ( https://xkcd.com/1053/ ). You don't need to denigrate the author's credibility to write about their personal experience and insight from it in order to provide a reference to the much deeper field of study on this to those who are interested. Personally, I had heard of "historiography" but had no idea this is what it meant. And now I do! And that wouldn't have ha…

I'm less denigrating the author and more encouraging people who found this idea interesting to seek out experts. I'm glad that this person is thinking about this topic. I also see a frankly huge number of absolute amateurs having their ideas about history distributed all over the world while professionals are doing everything they can to communicate effectively.

Re: The past is not true

#187

Post by gochi »

pdonis wrote: post #171

The article's main point is that you can change the story, but the actual example he gives is a change in the facts --the actual facts weren't what he thought they were. That is why the story changed--because he found out that the actual facts weren't as bad as the "facts" he had previously believed were true. So it's not true that "the actual facts are a small part of the story". They are the story; you can't change…

>actual facts

You see how quickly you are to believe these are the "actual facts"? That's how quickly they were to believe their "actual facts" as well.

That is the story. Not the facts. What we tell ourselves, what we tell others. This is why they brought up memories, an unstable collection of flashes in our mind, and we use these to craft a story. The story has changed, and will continue to change, you're in the process of writing it right now.

Unless you don't believe in free will and that your story/stories are already written. That's a very fun thought!

This is why "facts" is misleading here. We aren't talking about observed realities (she is going to the park, I am eating an ice cream), we're talking about our feelings, thoughts, memories, perceived consequences, ambitions, projections, assumptions. None of these are objective. Despite our best attempt to come together and make it so.

Re: The past is not true

#188

Post by gtirloni »

gochi wrote: post #187
pdonis wrote: post #171

The article's main point is that you can change the story, but the actual example he gives is a change in the facts --the actual facts weren't what he thought they were. That is why the story changed--because he found out that the actual facts weren't as bad as the "facts" he had previously believed were true. So it's not true that "the actual facts are a small part of the story". They are the story; you can't change…

>actual facts You see how quickly you are to believe these are the "actual facts"? That's how quickly they were to believe their "actual facts" as well. That is the story. Not the facts. What we tell ourselves, what we tell others. This is why they brought up memories, an unstable collection of flashes in our mind, and we use these to craft a story. The story has changed, and will continue to change, you're in the pr…

So both of them based their story on flimsy/incomplete evidence and they keep reshaping their stories.

If only there were an objective reality to know which car was in the wrong. /s

Re: The past is not true

#189

Post by nobody9999 »

sbob wrote: post #155
atleastoptimal wrote: post #124

I don't always fully agree with anecdotal feel good stories that seem to imply a greater universal point due to a by-chance outcome. What if the author had paralyzed the woman? What if he was solely and entirely at fault? It's nicely written, but it speaks to most people's general positivity bias: our yearning for a benign truth underlying all things that are bad, or more specifically, that bad things aren't really r…

> What if the author had paralyzed the woman? What if he was solely and entirely at fault? In this case his story would have never been written. Thus we get a big survivorship bias to hear only about unlikely events and get some kind of wisdom tidbits from those.

>> What if the author had paralyzed the woman? What if he was solely and entirely at fault?

>In this case his story would have never been written. Thus we get a big survivorship bias to hear only about unlikely events and get some kind of wisdom tidbits from those.

That's not necessarily true. Many years ago, I killed a 77 year-old woman by striking her with my bicycle. Her skull fractured when she hit the pavement. I heard her skull being crushed, but I didn't realize it at the time -- after I realized what that sound was, it's haunted me to this day.

I was completely at fault (I blew through a red light and hit her after avoiding someone else) and while I don't think about it every day any more, I bear the responsibility for her injury, eventual death and the grief it caused her family.

While I don't consider myself a bad or evil person, I made a really bad decision that cost someone their life. And I will bear the guilt of that bad decision forever.

I don't give myself a pass because it wasn't a malicious act, mostly because that poor woman is still dead regardless of my motivations.

I can't go back and change the past, but I've tried to make better decisions since then. That's not enough, but it's all I can do to avoid such things moving forward.

Re: The past is not true

#190

Post by miiiiiike »

amp108 wrote: post #183
metacritic12 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think misanthropes aren't being enabled by articles like the above. Many of them honestly don't care deep down about the damage they do. Others like Mark Wahlberg just "forgive themselves" for blinding a neighbor as a teen, even if their actual victim doesn't forgive them, so they can feel better about themselves mentally. https://time.com/3623630/mark-wahlberg-pardon/

I don't know what's inside Mark Wahlberg's heart, but let's suppose it's someone whom, for the sake of argument, we know truly regrets their actions: what are they supposed to do if another person doesn't forgive them?

If they can’t or won’t forgive you: Try not to make the same mistake twice.

You can’t control what other people do, only how you react to it.

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