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Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

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Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#181

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

I've always hated IDEs. And I hate most UIs - they are a nightmare for me.

I never connected it to ADHD. But I have to say that vim is a godsend to me when I try to do anything serious. And if you are able to reach me whenever you want by Slack, I'm not being productive.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#182
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

monkey patching is rarely done. In practice, your rebuttal almost never occurs. I believe these type checkers can detect monkey patching and trigger a type error or warning.

In practice it does occur very often. I’d suggest not ascribing your own experience to my own. I’ve been professionally coding in Python for over a decade in very varied codebases. There are tons of libraries in many companies that use dynamic attribute lookups for efficiency reasons, when adapting to different data sources and the like. Or pass through lookups on nested objects. Or they’re dynamically looked up on b…

[flagged]

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#183
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already has to a degree - hyperactive type and inattentive type. But you've also got to consider personal taste - hyperfixation happens when it's something you're interested in. Someone else might hyperfocus on video games, or trawling ebay, or researching a topic.

Not a disagreement, more of a yes, and : “interested” may not necessarily be personal interest, and the subject of hyperfocus might not be a personal interest. It can also happen manifest, for example, as obsession with solving some work problem or chore which isn’t appealing at all until begun. Or even some unrelated yak shaving tangent that fits none of these categories.

Yeah, from personal experience I'll happily sit there and hand-lint a file. It's... calming? So I wonder what the right word to use in place of "interest" is. Attention?

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#184
post #10

This reminds me of how Rob Pike mentioned his dislike for syntax coloring as extra cognitive load, which seems odd in regards to current IDEs filled with information and stimuli. With LLMs now directly interfaced to IDEs, it is likely that any obstacle will trigger a need for immediate AI powered dopamine reward. I wonder how programmers brains are going to rewire in this regard, even for those not subject to ADHD, b…

Syntax highlight never bothered me, and could even be helpful. But I can see where Pike is coming from. What drives me nuts is autocomplete, because it pops things into my vision automagically while I'm trying to focus on the code, and even effects a mode change (some keys do different things when autocomplete is active). Almost if not as bad, is when I'm working on someone else's code, and they misspelled a word whe…

> What drives me nuts is autocomplete, because it pops things into my vision automagically while I'm trying to focus on the code, and even effects a mode change (some keys do different things when autocomplete is active).

Totally agree! I disable "press Enter to accept suggestion" in JetBrains IDEs for this reason.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#185
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've likely worked for more companies then you in the last 5 years or so due to my personality. I don't stay at one place for long. Actually I've probably worked for more in my entire career, but only the last 5 years should be relevant. Even so where I worked is only part of the equation. You can look up which companies use python types in a google search. Let me add more nuance, companies that use python as glue co…

I’m unsure how you can so confidently make that assertion. Even at companies that do use type hints, there’ll be tons of legacy code that won’t (and probably tons of new code as well if we’re being realistic). It’s like saying every company uses bash scripts. It’s not really indicative of the prevalence in actual code bases in production use other than saying it may be used somewhere within the company. Between this…

>Even at companies that do use type hints, there’ll be tons of legacy code that won’t (and probably tons of new code as well if we’re being realistic).

The first part is true, I agree with that assessment and I never made a contrary claim. Companies are migrating.

The second part in parenthesis, is less common, I don't agree that it's a generality among companies that have python as a primary language.

>It’s like saying every company uses bash scripts. It’s not really indicative of the prevalence in actual code bases in production use other than saying it may be used somewhere within the company.

I don't even know what you're getting at with this example. Tons of companies use python "somehwhere" within the company. I'm sure in those cases it's often not typed.

But for companies or teams that use python as a primary it's typically typed or in the process of getting migrated to be typed. That is the nuance I added to my claim.

>Between this and your other comments, you’re making very widespread comments that can’t logically apply to everything and nor do they in my experience.

Except you made statements that are factually wrong. I literally ran mypy on some code and your statements were categorically incorrect from your other comment. Usually these debates are anecdotal so logic doesn't apply as it's just fuzzy opinions regarding social aspects of society. But that's not the case here. You made factually incorrect statements and that has bearing on the correctness of your anecdotal statements too.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#186

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

> Visual studio proper is a 100% circus for me now. I can power through it, but I lose tabs in about 15 seconds after opening them. I used to be the same way but then I discovered Visual Studio's vertical tab option. Tabs are displayed vertically on the left side of the editor pane. The filenames are all aligned so it's actually possible to visually scan them. You can group them by project and color code them by file…

I use the tab tree extension in Firefox for the same reason. Vertical tabs have only minor usefulness anymore for me.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#187

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

There is no earthly reason why a text editor should have network access in the first place. Can you just block that?

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#188
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why I try to keep functions/modules as simple as possible and ideally not longer in length than I can see on my screen at once (when possible) This is the paradox of "readable" code. Each person has a different definition of it. I also prefer to write as dumb code as possible (well, these days I do, I of course tried to be extra clever in my earlier days). But for me it's the jumping around that makes me lose focus…

For me it's not just the jumps but also overly long names. My ability to quickly scan the code is hindered by names that all jumble together because they aren't visually distinct enough. And when they read like a book, I'm going to have the same problems I have when reading books where I'm somehow reading all these words across the page but at the same time not actually processing any of it.

I believe a good variable name should be a token. To me this means that it should be visually distinct at a glance without reading it. This runs counter to my job where 20+ character variables are common.

Token length names are really useful when working on a contained codebase. Exposed endpoints result in longer names and a messy spelling errors

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#189

Is that why I find embedded programming the most fun? I have been diagnosed with ADHD and had a really bad score on working memory. With embedded programming, there are usually few to no libraries and all I have to do is write certain values into certain hardware register addresses to get stuff done. All the relevant information is always on my screens, allowing my working memory to be occupied only by the problem or…

What ide are you using? Also what are you using for the build? Cmake? Just curious. I found in general most ides don't work well for embedded. There's always some really annoying flaw.

Not OP, but I write in C for embedded platforms.

I use Vim and I write my build scripts in Python. Of the half-dozen dependencies I'm working with at the moment, half use GNU Autotools and the other half use CMake.

I know my targets and their respective toolchains in advance, so the automatic feature & quirks discovery of e.g. autoconf doesn't help all that much for the code I write myself. Plus, the targets I work with nowadays all have a compiler that's C11 and GCC-compatible to some degree, so my approach is generally to target ANSI C89/ISO C90 to the greatest extent possible; pulling in C99, C11, and GNU extensions only when necessary. I find myself reaching for more and more nowadays, FWIW.

Re: Effect of perceptual load on performance within IDE in people with ADHD symptoms

#190

Even "lite" editors like VSCode, NP++, Sublime Text, etc have become distracting for me. Every time I fire one of these things up, my mental state is eliminated by being forced to dismiss some "hey we got a new version for you :D:D:D" bullshit modal. To whomever is responsible for adding these to apps: please stop. No one is enjoying your shenanigans. It is a text editor . Empathize with the user: People with far les…

> Visual studio proper is a 100% circus for me now. I can power through it, but I lose tabs in about 15 seconds after opening them. I used to be the same way but then I discovered Visual Studio's vertical tab option. Tabs are displayed vertically on the left side of the editor pane. The filenames are all aligned so it's actually possible to visually scan them. You can group them by project and color code them by file…

Thank you. I just tried this out and it immediately felt like a dagger being removed from my back.

I can instantly see my new pattern is solution explorer on the right, vertical tabs on the left.

I can probably go back to one 1440p monitor again. I was abusing multiple monitors just to keep tabs pinned in physical space...

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