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Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

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Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#181

Post by lastangryman »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #44

That seems pretty sensible. There have been lawsuits from artists before. Do you want to risk a game selling 10m copies and then it turns out that all the art was just copied and pasted by the "AI" and Valve is now on the hook. Also from a store perspective, any game where shortcuts like this are used tend to be shit games. They don't want spam games to be pumped. There's already enough indie trash platformers that n…

> Also from a store perspective, any game where shortcuts like this are used tend to be shit games. They don't want spam games to be pumped. There's already enough indie trash platformers that nobody wants.

I find this hard to agree with. A game engine is a "shortcut" too, I can imagine people saying at some point anything developed with Unity would "tend to be shit games".

Associating quality with visual fidelity anyway is wrong, look at Terraria, I'm pretty sure anyone semi competent with AI generation could produce better assets, but it wouldn't help them produce a better game.

People will use gen AI art in good games, and people will use gen AI art in terrible games.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#182

Post by minimaxir »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #169
minimaxir wrote: post #4

This just creates a moral hazard to not disclose the use of any AI-generated assets, which is something other creative industries have already learnt the hard way. Recent text-to-image models have improved enough such that it's possible to get realistic, not-Midjourney-dreaminess in the generations with a modicium of effort, so banning obviously-AI-generated images is shortsighted and unsustainable.

Also just creates an incentive to just lie about what AI model / training data you used , how could anyone possibly prove your deception? What would an satisfy an audit trail that no tainted AI data have made it into a digital image? It would involve a chain of attribution per fraction of a pixel through all it's past iterations.

> It would involve a chain of attribution per fraction of a pixel through all it's past iterations.

Which wouldn't be sufficient since, as stated many times before, the diffusion process most text-to-image AIs use is not collaging.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#183

Post by mock-possum »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #44

That seems pretty sensible. There have been lawsuits from artists before. Do you want to risk a game selling 10m copies and then it turns out that all the art was just copied and pasted by the "AI" and Valve is now on the hook. Also from a store perspective, any game where shortcuts like this are used tend to be shit games. They don't want spam games to be pumped. There's already enough indie trash platformers that n…

AI doesn’t copy and paste art though, it generates new art based off of patterns it’s seen in its training material. If it’s training material heavily features red squares, and you prompt it to generate a new piece, chances are you’ll get something with a red square - not because it copied that red square from any particular piece, but because it was a common element. There’s a difference between reproducing common elements in pursuit of adhering to a style, and copying and pasting.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#185

Post by meheleventyone »

HlessClaudesman wrote: post #169
minimaxir wrote: post #4

This just creates a moral hazard to not disclose the use of any AI-generated assets, which is something other creative industries have already learnt the hard way. Recent text-to-image models have improved enough such that it's possible to get realistic, not-Midjourney-dreaminess in the generations with a modicium of effort, so banning obviously-AI-generated images is shortsighted and unsustainable.

Also just creates an incentive to just lie about what AI model / training data you used , how could anyone possibly prove your deception? What would an satisfy an audit trail that no tainted AI data have made it into a digital image? It would involve a chain of attribution per fraction of a pixel through all it's past iterations.

Valve isn't worried about you lying they just want your attestation so if someone tries to sue them they can redirect them to you and if they think it's worthwhile sue you themselves for lying and breaching the contract. In the same way they want you to attest to owning rights to all the IP in the products you put on their platform. It's just IP ownership around AI content is murky right now so gets treated as a special case.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#186

Post by [deleted] »

weatherlight wrote: post #122
vkou wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And neither is choosing to act in a situation where the legality isn't clear. I understand that OpenAI et al would like to assure all their investors and customers that there's nothing legally problematic with using an AI to launder away copyright infrigement, but we're going to need a few lawsuits to have the matter settled.

someone failed their ethics class in college....

[deleted]

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#187

Post by GreedClarifies »

a_cardboard_box wrote: post #178
guy98238710 wrote: post #103

Engineers have created it and lawyers have ruined it. It's interesting how whole professions can be inherently constructive or inherently destructive.

Or are engineers trying to destroy the livelihood of millions of artists, and lawyers are protecting it?

Smash the looms! Smash the looms!

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#189

Post by mardifoufs »

evandale wrote: post #168
mcpackieh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they copping out of? What are you suggesting their real motivation is?

I'll suggest a real motivation: they want to make their own game generated by AI and have first mover advantage while they work out all the scary AI copyright issues they have to deal with that they already deal with because the same problem exists with human generated art. Why do I say that? They want the developer to prove they only used material they created to do the training and Valve has the resources to follow…

I don't think valve wanting to make a game is a realistic argument for anything in 2023. I'd believe any other reason than that lol.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#190

Post by mrweasel »

Matticus_Rex wrote: post #179
mrweasel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which honestly sounds rather reasonable and should be the expectation of all current AI products. The only reason it wouldn't be easy enough to provide is if you just scraped any available data set with a complete disregard for intellectual property.

Humans take in inputs and transform what they learn into distinct outputs. Training data is essentially just a machine doing the same thing. Knowingly scraping pirated material would be one thing, but essentially having the machine view publicly-available material is not clearly at odds with existing IP law.

And if your output isn't distinct enough from the inputs, you too aren't allowed to claim copyright or sell your work without proper licensing.

With the AI we can at least be 100% certain of which input you trained it on and under which licens, making the whole a lot easier to deal with, as compared to humans. The liability is the same, but it's much easier to avoid legal implications, so why not play ball and ensure that you have the correct licenses?

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