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Kagi raises $670k

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Kagi raises $670k

#181

Post by fauigerzigerk »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #175
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but then Google doesn't just download the page source and index that. They run JavaScript in some cases to get to the actual content. This must come at a significant cost. Their index is enormous as well: "The Google Search index contains hundreds of billions of web pages and is well over 100,000,000 gigabytes in size." https://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/search/howsearchworks/how-... Doesn't mean you have to be…

Sure, download and run the javascript, but then you can snapshot the DOM, grab the text, and discard all the rest. The HTML and js is of little practical value for the index after that point. Google's index is likely very large because they don't have any real economic incentives to keeping it small.

>... but then you can snapshot the DOM, grab the text, and discard all the rest

Yes, absolutely, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. But first you have to figure out what you can discard beyond the HTML tags themselves to avoid indexing all the garbage that is on each and every page.

When I tried to do this I came to the conclusion that I needed to actually render the page to find out where on the page a particular piece of text was, what font size it had, if it was even visible, etc. And then there's JavaScript of course.

So what I'm saying is that storing a couple of kilobytes is probably not the most costly part of indexing a page.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#182

Post by andsoitis »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #85
Animats wrote: post #6

"Kagi is building a novel ad-free, paid search engine and a powerful web browser as a part of our mission to humanize the web." With 670K? Cuil went through about $30 million to develop a standalone search engine. And that was fifteen years ago, when search was simpler. There may be a market for a search engine company that profitably runs a low-cost operation with very few ads and makes real efforts to keep out spam…

I think a small operation is exactly the sort of outfit to do it. Makes you focus on what is important. The absolute worst way you can arrange a search engine project is as some sort of manhattan project with a humongous budget and an army of professors and experts. History is littered with bold and ambitious Google killers that went nowhere. You can throw almost any amount of money at an operation, and it will gobbl…

> I think a small operation is exactly the sort of outfit to do it. Makes you focus on what is important.

They're focusing on 2 things: a search engine AND a Mac-only web browser.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#183

Post by ColinHayhurst »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #173
marginalia_nu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A search engine doesn't index the HTML code. You're looking at a few Kb per document. You also don't need multiple historical snapshots of the document like WM retains. So you're looking at maybe 20 bn docs, 4 Kb each. 100 Tb, before compression.

True, but then Google doesn't just download the page source and index that. They run JavaScript in some cases to get to the actual content. This must come at a significant cost. Their index is enormous as well: "The Google Search index contains hundreds of billions of web pages and is well over 100,000,000 gigabytes in size." https://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/search/howsearchworks/how-... Doesn't mean you have to be…

I've been told, by a very credible source that would know, that the top level index is (only) 10 billion web pages.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#184

Post by nunez »

pzmarzly wrote: post #134
ziftface wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love kagi but I hate this. It's not their fault, it's just a limitation of the os but it's such a hassle when you have to solve a Google captcha to get kagi results. I'm considering just removing that from my phone and switching back to Google there.

You can switch default search engine to DDG or Ecosia, Kagi extension will still redirect you away. Or use extensions like xSearch or xEngine, they seem to be better at redirecting

That's exactly what I do. I feed searches to Ecosia and the Kagi extension handles the rewrite. Works well on Mac and iOS. I only use Google explicitly with the !g operator (which I use sparingly, and often get the same results or slightly worse) or for Google Images (which are better for now)

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#187

Post by Applejinx »

EGreg wrote: post #87

Anyone here old enough to remember when Kagi was a payment gateway? At least, I think it was. It was the first one I used, back when I used to make "shareware" software. Ah, those were the days.

They still owe me hundreds of dollars :D

Weirdly, this seems to be an entirely different thing. I guess the name and/or domain got sold to a completely distinct operation.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#188

Post by nine_k »

sph wrote: post #62
pixeladed wrote: post #53

Neeva - cofounded by an ex-Google exec also provided a paid search experience with similar features. They have since shut down and in their blog post pointed out that the issue they faced was not convincing people that they should pay for search but rather the fact that distribution of their service is difficult (i.e. being browser defaults, at work, on people's phones). What's Kagi doing differently to be able to su…

They reach the top of HN front page. Because I've never heard of Neeva before, but I'm a Kagi paying user.

So did Neeva. This is how I got on their waitlist.

Did not have enough time to actually use them though.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#189

Post by skrebbel »

AdamN wrote: post #156
ignoramous wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or pay 2 capable engs in India for 11 years. £670k is a lot in some parts of the world

The typical formula is that it costs double a person's salary for the total budget. So really you're saying 5.5 years and 2 people is a low number so maybe you build a team of 4 and then the runway is an excruciatingly short 2.75 years.

That formula makes no sense if you’re a scrappy distributed team.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#190

Post by throwaway290 »

Sakos wrote: post #177
throwaway290 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good transparent business is funded by users and/or is publicly traded. This stuff makes me cautious.

You think being publicly traded would be better? That just gives a business perverse incentives detached from the quality of the business's products/services.

Private investment is what means perverse incentives. You care about your big donors now. If you take 50k from a guy you want to give him what he wants in return so he gives again. It's about ROI. The bigger the amount the more strings attached.

Public trading means clear protocol for ROI and it allows to have many small investors who can have as little say as you specify (non voting shares etc). Comes with requirement for a lot of documentation and transparency too. So accountability. If business I like wants to grow and needs money this is the route I want it to take

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