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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#181

Post by ItsBob »

Hextinium wrote: post #126
_2z1p wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming laptops are particularly prone to this because of all the heat they generate. Desktops have much better mechanisms for dealing with heat.

This is where buying "professional grade" does often save you. I have seen tons of Dell Latitudes and Lenovo Thinkpads that look like a black brick but are still going 5+ years later. They actually invested in thermals and it shows. (Written on a 7 year old Thinkpad).

It's funny you should say that... I just bought a 6? year old Latitude E7470 for £189 last week.

I had one years ago and it was built like a tank. Also, the screen (2560x1440) is possibly the best I've had on a laptop and the keyboard has particularly deep and solid travel making it the best typing experience I've had on a laptop too.

So, best laptop I've had tbh.

It's only an i7 6600U so not mega powerful but I don't write 2M LOC apps anyway so it's fine.

Just waiting on 32GB RAM arriving (official support is 16GB but the chipset supports 32).

I agree 100%... business-class laptops (and printers for that matter) all the way.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#182

Post by happymellon »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #30
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

Spending a ton of time on brittle power configuration in order to get from “bad” to “meh”, and suspend never quite working properly, is part of the experience of owning a linux laptop. That’s the way it’s always been. Solutions include not caring, buying a mac, or buying windows and using WSL.

Interesting that my ThinkPad can get 8 hours from stock Fedora.

Might not be as much as my work MacBook Pro, but definitely more pleasant to work with.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#183

Post by happymellon »

908B64B197 wrote: post #63
vorpalhex wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a cost to buying machines that are sustainable and use well paid workers, just like there's a cost to cage free eggs. I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment.

> I believe Foxconn, the main assembler for Apple, still sleeps 6 workers to an apartment. The thing is, if Chinese labor becomes more expensive, these workers will get replaced either by an automated factory elsewhere (maybe in America!) and unemployment.

I don't think abusing your employees is ever okay.

If the only reason we haven't fully automated something is because we can force 6 people to live in a 100ft apartment then there is something pretty fucked up.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#184

Post by lhl »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #36
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

> I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness Most laptops with high brightness monitors would leave you with about 2-3 hours of battery life... many laptops can hit 300-400 nits, some even more. sRGB and BT709 declare the brightness of SDR white as 100 nits, and 100-120 is considered acceptable. The rest of what you say sounds like your Ubuntu is misconfigured, which is common with Ubuntu installs. The fix is usually either…

I think you're way overestimating the power usage of modern displays. The Framework display (BOE095F) backlight based on my personal testing uses ~2.1W at 100% (440 nits) (this is as expected, you can look at datasheets on similar displays like https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-file/1294460/BOE/NT156FHM-N41/... and the the Pbl on the specsheet).

The old Framework 13s have a 55Wh battery, so 2-3h would require 18.3-27.5W of average power consumption. For context, PL1 (max sustained power limit) of the 12th-gen CPUs are set to 30W in the Framework and when I tested last year, powerstat (calculated w/ ACPI battery info) reported that the laptop my 1260P Framework idles at is about 3.34W w/ backlight off, 4.01W @ 200 nits, and 5.46W @ 100% BL.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#185

Post by stepbeek »

redroyal wrote: post #135
DreamFlasher wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fullack. Returned my framework laptop because of 3 hours battery life (streaming Netflix, measured multiple times), the 747 sound (customer support told me "works as expected"), and if I want to fry eggs I have other devices for that. I'd say "there's room for improvement".

I’m not a fan. Thinkpads have had magnesium enclosures since 2000. I don’t like the framework design or philosophy. You’d have to be insane to buy an Intel laptop for the same money as an ARM Macbook. This reusable thing doesn’t make a bit of sense to me either. Do you really want to be using a 10 year old chassis with new parts? What’s the point of trying to save the environment when the other 8 billion could care l…

Unless you don’t want a Mac? I like my Mac, but prefer Linux for dev. Having a beefy AMD framework 16” that I can refresh in 3 years sounds great to me.

> What’s the point of trying to save the environment when the other 8 billion could care less?

“What’s the point in doing things you personally care about if there isn’t worldwide consensus?”

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#186

Post by denvrede »

seabrookmx wrote: post #41
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

I'm running Fedora with the i5-1240p, but I can squeak out maybe 4.5hours max if I'm just in VS Code and don't have my brightness maxed out. With max brightness and Google meet running in Firefox, I barely get 2. And that's with the "Power Saver" profile enabled in GNOME. I really love the machine otherwise, but I can't say I haven't considered just getting a Macbook Air (especially now that they have the 15").

For me it's even worse. Being in a Google Meet with "level 1" blurring activated puts my battery life between 60-90 minutes. I don't know if it's Google Meets fault or bad battery management of the Frame.work or even the browser :/

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#187

Post by denvrede »

newsclues wrote: post #9
cowpig wrote: post #3

I find the battery life on my framework 13 really bad (ubuntu installed). There's some issue where the battery drains fairly quickly in suspend which requires enabling "deep sleep" mode, but it still drains a lot faster than other laptops I've had. And then the battery life in general isn't very good; I'd say ~2 hours at full brightness with some video streaming mixed in with normal browsing. I wonder if that's the s…

Linux battery life is what sells so many MacBooks to developers.

And that's what I don't get. Especially with the developers I know, you're mostly having a desktop setup with a power supply. Or is the stereotype of most of the developers sitting in a Starbucks all day, every day, true?

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#188

Post by vladvasiliu »

xarope wrote: post #119
DreamFlasher wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fullack. Returned my framework laptop because of 3 hours battery life (streaming Netflix, measured multiple times), the 747 sound (customer support told me "works as expected"), and if I want to fry eggs I have other devices for that. I'd say "there's room for improvement".

I think that's a consequence of the gen 11/12 Intel chips used? I think the AMD versions would be much cooler and have better battery life (or so I hope!)

One data point I can contribute is that of two "cousin" HP laptops: Elite Book 845 G8 with an AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 5650U and 840 G8 with an Intel i7-1165G7.

These are 14" "Ultrabooks" with the same rated battery capacity, dimensions and almost the same components.

The AMD one has 64 GB of RAM and a very bright screen (advertised as 1000 nits). The Intel one only has 32 GB and a very dim, 6 bit screen.

They both lack a dedicated GPU.

Under Linux with the AMD one, while doing basic dicking around on the internet and light Rust dev with intellij, I get a good 5-6 hours without draining the battery fully. The screen set to the minimum or almost (it's more than enough in a bright apartment – around 50% is enough when outside if the sun doesn't shine directly on it). I haven't tried this computer under Windows while unplugged.

With the Intel one, in the same conditions as above, except setting the screen a good 2/3-3/4 (the screen is absurdly bad and dim, so I need to up the backlight) I only get around 4 hours. Under Windows, it seems similar. But under Windows, standby seems to drain less battery (not counting when it hibernates). The PC does not have the option to enable S3.

Both laptops have the "battery saver" function on, which means it only charges to about 80% of the rated capacity. "Linux" means Arch with the latest "zen" kernel and X11. Windows is up-to-date 11 22h2. I didn't bother doing any specific tuning for either OS.

One other data point is a newer model of the same PC with a 12th gen i5 part (1240p I think but really not sure). My colleague who has it complains that the fan is always on. However, he uses Windows, and even on my 11th gen I do find the fan tends to come on fairly often, while it basically never does under Linux.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#189

Post by LelouBil »

111111IIIIIII wrote: post #164
LoganDark wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How and why is it so affordable? Doesn't have a GPU.

Ha. There it is. Thanks. Still really awesome though, because I suppose you can always add a GPU.

On the (soon to be released) 16 yes, but not on the 13

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – Enclosure

#190

Post by gobip »

stepbeek wrote: post #185
redroyal wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a fan. Thinkpads have had magnesium enclosures since 2000. I don’t like the framework design or philosophy. You’d have to be insane to buy an Intel laptop for the same money as an ARM Macbook. This reusable thing doesn’t make a bit of sense to me either. Do you really want to be using a 10 year old chassis with new parts? What’s the point of trying to save the environment when the other 8 billion could care l…

Unless you don’t want a Mac? I like my Mac, but prefer Linux for dev. Having a beefy AMD framework 16” that I can refresh in 3 years sounds great to me. > What’s the point of trying to save the environment when the other 8 billion could care less? “What’s the point in doing things you personally care about if there isn’t worldwide consensus?”

Hopefully soon, linux will be running just fine on the Apple Silicon.
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