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The Federated App Problem

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Re: The Federated App Problem

#181

Post by cubefox »

Frondo wrote: post #91
memefrog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's misinformation? Things you don't think are true? Things the instance admin doesn't think are true? Things officially deemed untrue by the State? Or by the UN/WHO? Is is considered Misinformation if it was deemed Untrue in the past by State Officials but is now Official State Policy? We have always been at war with Eastasia. We have always recommended the wearing of masks. We have always seriously considered th…

There seems to be an assumption in your writing that people should use social media to challenge themselves, be exposed to different views, to "discourse" and so on. Nearly everyone I know via social media wants to hang out with their friends, not debate people. Whether something is an echo chamber is sort of beside their goal, they want to have fun. If one seeks out something that explicitly isn't an echo chamber, I…

The problem is that Mastodon puts a second filter bubble on top of the old who-do-I-follow filter bubble. Except this additional filter bubble isn't controlled by yourself.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#182

Post by ccppurcell »

andybak wrote: post #147
ccppurcell wrote: post #115

I don't get these posts. I've yet to hear someone developing federated social media whose goal is mass uptake. Mastodon is designed to avoid viral posts for instance. I use latex and vim to produce pdf documents. I wouldn't write a long post saying "I don't see this replacing ms office any time soon".

> I don't get these posts. I've yet to hear someone developing federated social media whose goal is mass uptake. In which case it's being mis-sold. It will never replace the thing that people are claiming it will replace. > Mastodon is designed to avoid viral posts "viral posts" aren't inherently a bad thing. It's part and parcel of some of the good aspects of social media - the sense of having a collective conversat…

Who's claiming that?

And why do you want to be found easily, really? In case you get your 15 minutes? I think the goal is to build community. Large numbers and reach are actually not so important.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#183

Post by HWR_14 »

jojobas wrote: post #160
HWR_14 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For pretty much any value of "an opinion that was the only one possible some 15 years ago", you are wrong. Other ideas were around at the time.

Ideas are like that, paper can't blush. For a salient example, the idea of providing 12 year olds with puberty blockers and opposite sex hormones without their parents' consent didn't quite fly then, and today disagreeing with it puts you in quite a few naughty lists.

"Ideas are controversial" is no where near "ideas weren't fathomable". There are several 24 news networks that make your exact example of "unallowed opinion" as a seemingly huge percentage of their content.

But also, that's a complete strawman. No serious group I am advocates medical treatment without parental consent. There is a strong movement to let 12-year-old choose what pronouns to use in school even without parental consent.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#184

Post by artichokeheart »

sxg wrote: post #4

I agree with the premise of the article. I’m a new Mastodon user trying to give the platform an honest shot, but I can’t understand why I would choose any particular server over another. Why choose anything other than the pseudo-default Mastodon.social? If I’m forced to choose another server, is that choice actually meaningful? I feel like I’m randomly picking between Hachyderm and TechHub.io and others. One advantag…

“ why would all problematic users congregate on the same server? ”

There’s a simple answer to why server blocking is a feature of mastodon. It was built to handle a real world problem. I.e there was early on a server that was a “free speech absolutist” server that server mods wanted to block at a server level.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#185

Post by detaro »

cubefox wrote: post #178
currency wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might talk about allegations and suppositions about an individual's behavior until I've seen evidence, but the hate and disinfo groups aren't imaginary. Groups that promote hate speech and misinformation do so by invading other communities and being disruptive. Brigading and doxxing have been their tools for a long time. Personally, I've seen that breaking up groups that promote hate speech and misinformation helps…

The problem is that what is considered "hate speech" and "misinformation" is often very subjective. How would someone even "invade" other people's communities? Everyone chooses their own timeline after all.

If all you ever do is read and never post anything people might interact with, then that's true. That's not much of a "community" though if nobody ever posts.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#186

Post by andybak »

ccppurcell wrote: post #182
andybak wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get these posts. I've yet to hear someone developing federated social media whose goal is mass uptake. In which case it's being mis-sold. It will never replace the thing that people are claiming it will replace. > Mastodon is designed to avoid viral posts "viral posts" aren't inherently a bad thing. It's part and parcel of some of the good aspects of social media - the sense of having a collective conversat…

Who's claiming that? And why do you want to be found easily, really? In case you get your 15 minutes? I think the goal is to build community. Large numbers and reach are actually not so important.

> In case you get your 15 minutes?

Cheap.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#187

Post by [deleted] »

cubefox wrote: post #158
HWR_14 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For pretty much any value of "an opinion that was the only one possible some 15 years ago", you are wrong. Other ideas were around at the time.

It's more that at the time you could disagree on some things where now only one view is acceptable. The Overton window has narrowed substantially on certain subjects.

[deleted]

Re: The Federated App Problem

#188

Post by cubefox »

detaro wrote: post #185
cubefox wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that what is considered "hate speech" and "misinformation" is often very subjective. How would someone even "invade" other people's communities? Everyone chooses their own timeline after all.

If all you ever do is read and never post anything people might interact with, then that's true. That's not much of a "community" though if nobody ever posts.

"Interact with"? You mean reply? If your tweet goes viral, you might indeed get unwanted replies. But usually you only get them from people who follow you, or other people close in your circle.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#189

Post by eggnet »

cubefox wrote: post #180
eggnet wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal to noise ratio. When the admin of a server thinks the ratio of another server is too low, the admin will block it. What's the definition of too low? Up to the admins of that server.

That's the problem. It's enough when people choose themselves whom to follow.

It's not enough if those people's posts are flooded with low quality replies.

Re: The Federated App Problem

#190

Post by eggnet »

cubefox wrote: post #181
Frondo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be an assumption in your writing that people should use social media to challenge themselves, be exposed to different views, to "discourse" and so on. Nearly everyone I know via social media wants to hang out with their friends, not debate people. Whether something is an echo chamber is sort of beside their goal, they want to have fun. If one seeks out something that explicitly isn't an echo chamber, I…

The problem is that Mastodon puts a second filter bubble on top of the old who-do-I-follow filter bubble. Except this additional filter bubble isn't controlled by yourself.

There is always a second filter bubble. In the case of non-federated sites, that filter is in the form of the policy of the site and also the algorithms used to sort feeds and replies.

With federated solutions, users have a choice.

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