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Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

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Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#181

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>whoever coded that really was deep into the tail end of a caffeine, coding and sleep deprivation binge ;) That's most indie game devs of the period, but more so at id Software which splintered the team during Quake's development due to internal squabbles, causing John Romero and others to leave id. You can even tell that from the quality of Quake's levels which start with beautifully crafted and intricate levels, an…

You assume that the quake maps were built sequentially, but that's not the case. Since this was all new technology, the "best" maps were conceived at the end of development, after the team was familiar with the tech. You want those maps to be at the start of the game, as it's the first thing the player sees. Also, the distinct style of the last episode is easily explained by the fact that all of its maps were built b…

Yeah, I didn't like Petersen's levels much at the time, but looking back on them later as a designer (I worked on a couple doomed Unreal projects) I can see he was trying to be as creative as possible within the limits of the engine, as far as getting away from "find the yellow key" style design that frankly, everyone was already bored of.

I had a pirate pre-release copy of Quake that I'd wished I'd saved. But in any case I do remember there were changes to the maps all over the game, so the levels were definitely not done in order. The biggest difference I remember is the ending in the final game is totally different. The pre-release had a more Doom style waves of monsters fight on a sort of giant terrace. I didn't particularly like that doom style ending, but also felt the release game's ending was kind of an anti climactic gimmick.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#182
post #140

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> I discovered that some were playing Q3 at ramped up physics speeds in single player. When going back to playing at regular speed, it feels like you're playing in slow motion. That's amazing, like training at altitude but for e-sports.

it's not actually that helpful because a lot of the skill comes from muscle memory and that's not just for aiming but mousemovement also has a significant influence on movement for example there's something called a circle jump where you use precise mouse movement to get the most efficient angles so that your movement speed is maximized from your first jump

Quake 3 was really all about map control. If you can get the cadence down to run through the map and grab all the goodies you will dominate in 1v1.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#183

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Strongly disagree that the new Doom games have better gameplay than the old ones. Every fight is a giant monster trap. IMO it showcases the worst aspect of the original doom games.

But gunplay and movement is the essence of Doom, unless you're saying that the best part of the original Doom games were the labyrinthine level design

> unless you're saying that the best part of the original Doom games were the labyrinthine level design

Not the best part, but certainly one of the best parts. Doom and Doom 2 did labyrinths really well, much better than wolf3d (wolf's labyrinths were too samey and dull due to engine constraints) and I think better than nearly any game since. Games started foregoing labyrinths around when Half Life 1 came out (see also: Daggerfall vs Morrowind), I think because labyrinths filter plebs. But if you stick with Doom it'll teach you to have better spatial awareness that trivializes level learning in most other games. The new doom games particularly have linear level design very reminiscent of Half Life with some arena sections interspersed; they don't feel like Doom levels at all (except in very superficial ways, like "mars/hell themed".)

Such modern games lend themselves to navigating levels without maintaining a working knowledge of where you've been; at each instant your navigation choices may be informed by what you see on the screen right then without regard for what you've seen before. You can play Doom that way too, you'll get to the end eventually through brute force, but Doom does an excellent job of encouraging you to do better and develop your skill. If you remember where you are in relation to where you've already been, you can anticipate when a path is looping around to where you've already been before you actually round that corner. Maintaining orientation in this way, especially in a labyrinth, is a skill Doom excels at teaching. When you get good at it, such awareness of the level instills a sense of presence that just can't be conveyed any other way. Most modern games don't try to teach it; they expect that novice players won't be good at navigation and so, in the name of accessibility and mainstream appeal, refrain from challenging those players.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#184
post #72

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I'm not sure if it would've been John Carmack in this particular case. He was more concerned with the engine and rendering side of things, less with the gameplay logic stuff. More likely it would've been either John Romero or John Cash who wrote this code, but it's hard to say for sure. Best thing we can hope for is that John Romero pitches in with his impeccable memory :D

So the only requirement to work at iD back in the day was to be called John?

It seems like Amazon has the same idea when promoting people named Andy or Jeff to executive roles.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#185
post #32

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The movement? It was just dull but they fixed it with QuakeWorld. Bunny hopping is fun until you encounter stairs. They fixed that mechanic in Quake 2 but then everything else about this game is crap. Q3 was OMG, simply amazing Movement wise, CPM/CQ3 or QuakeLive is where things became fun again

The amazing thing about QuakeLive is that it initially ran in a browser window. I'm not sure how it was implemented, but it was amazing and it supported Mac and Linux as well. I wonder why they then decided to make it into a Windows only desktop app.. :-(

> The amazing thing about QuakeLive is that it initially ran in a browser window.

The performance was complete dogshit. Just simply awful. I had modern hardware at the time which ran both the original Q3A and ioquake3 at hundreds of fps if uncapped but QuakeLive in browser burned my computer up for sub-60 fps even with the graphics turned down. Unplayable. Not to mention they dropped Linux support. QuakeLive made me quit playing Quake. If I sound bitter about it now, you should have heard me then.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#186

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> Good chance it was John Carmack, probably one the top 10 programmers of all time. Where would you rank Linus Torvalds?

In the top 10 as well. In fact not too long ago I was asking someone to rate some piece of code and used 'from Linus / Carmack to (something shitty I don't remember)' as the metric.

It would be fun to make a game that showed you random code snippets and asked you to identify the author.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#187

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> Ranking programmers is as dumb as ranking musicians. If a musician had a noticeable impact on culture and was prolific, I don't see why we can't put them in a bracket of [in top #]. The ranking is really just to illustrate my respect for his work, accomplishments, insightful communications, and continued relevance as well as impact on my life and those around me. You can call that 'dumb' if you like, but I am human…

To me, Carmack equates more to an engineer who designed wild equipment used by sound engineers and musicians. Aside from Torvalds or Wozniak, I think most programmers are unsung, regardless of how much their products impact the world. Most programmers are quickly forgotten if they were ever known in the first place. In terms of cultural impact, think of the programmers behind our PC or mobile operating systems, major…

> It also seems like an era coming to a close where a solo programmer can deliver an impactful product.

This is true but you have to look at it differently. There are generally two ways of looking at history: the 'great man'[0] theory, or the 'of the times' theory.

If you look at it one way Woz and Carmack and Torvalds and the others were instrumental in shaping their surroundings and without those specific people we would have lost out on basically the entire technological world as we know it.

If you look at it another way, they were inevitable -- the times were such that it was bound to happen (or at least extremely likely) because of a great confluence of events that could never be arranged or predicted, and if Woz had electrocuted himself making the Apple I power supply module then someone else would have done something similar around the same time and we end up at the same spot (but Steve Jobs becomes a moderately successful Bay Area Benz dealer and we all use Blackberry phones with physical keyboards in 2023).

The era of an individual engineer or programmer making a paradigm shifting breakthrough in his or her basement may be over, but that just means the times have shifted into another dynamic. What that is can not be predicted, but if we do survive the oncoming crises upon us and somehow also never end up turning the planet into smoldering radioactive ash over a shipping lane dispute or something, there will be a time when such a person can be expected to emerge and do it again.

[0] excuse the masculine nature of this terminology, but unfortunately that is what it is called, though I haven't formally studied history in a while and it could have changed

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#188
post #106

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There's some really big innovations happening in e.g. rendering like that; I wouldn't be surprised if the complexity and work involved in just Nanite is 10x that of the whole Quake engine. Similarly there's the work nvidia is doing, using AI technology to upscale graphics instead of rendering things at 4K.

Hobbyists have already made their own implementation of Nanite. It's not that complicated.

In that sense, neither is the quake engine.

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carmack's main superpowers seem to be tons of hard work, not raw intelligence 1) Perseverance and focus: He kept rewriting the quake renderer, pushing it faster and better, where other people had long ago settled for a lesser variant or given up. 2) Try everything, even the stupid ideas. When he wrote quake, the wisdom was that the FPU was way to slow for a game. He managed to do z-divisions for blocks of 16 pixels o…

Not sure where I read it, but someone writing about the history of DOOM basically said John was a machine and the machine ran on Diet Coke and pizza. As long as he had both, he could remain in the zone indefinitely, which is pretty crazy when think about all the things he accomplished that you listed.

> Not sure where I read it, but someone writing about the history of DOOM basically said John was a machine and the machine ran on Diet Coke and pizza.

I'm pretty sure I've read it in "Masters of Doom".

Re: Quake's lightning gun bug explained [video]

#190
post #126
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it would've been John Carmack in this particular case. He was more concerned with the engine and rendering side of things, less with the gameplay logic stuff. More likely it would've been either John Romero or John Cash who wrote this code, but it's hard to say for sure. Best thing we can hope for is that John Romero pitches in with his impeccable memory :D

You can read Carmack's .plan archive from 1996 here, if you're so inclined: https://github.com/ESWAT/john-carmack-plan-archive/blob/mast... It's a _fascinating_ snapshot into Quake's development. I have no idea if his .plan is a record of what he, specifically, was doing, or if he was just capturing what the programming team was doing, but at the very least, it makes clear that he was aware of huge amounts of very hi…

Wow, this link is something else - you can track what problems he tackled and what he worked on DAILY.
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