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June 2023 Data Dump is missing

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Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#181

Post by sitkack »

shagie wrote: post #177
sitkack wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really would need an existing dump to seed the new site.

There were a number of issues that lead to the decision not to do a grab and seed of SE into codidact. There was the "what license is that post actually under? Is it 2.5? 3.0? 4.0?" which made things difficult. There was the "what are the actual attribution requirements that SE has for sites that use its content?" This is a bit of an issue because it's never really clear what those requirements are and what you need…

Thanks for the write up.

https://software.codidact.com/categories/38

I haven't used codidact (sorry, name needs replacing), ok just poked around

  * too slow
  * needs type ahead find search
  * needs a GIST experience
The site looks good, presentation is really clean. Lots to like about it. But the think that replaces SO is going to have to be a step function in capabilities. That said, just fixing the weird descend into performative rule following and language-lawyering on SO might be that step function.

  * "Tipping" or actually giving money to a question answerer would be cool
  * Having a question asker being able to put a bounty on question would be cool
On the face of it, I am not getting scalability (in many senses) vibes from codidact.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#182

Post by juujian »

b3morales wrote: post #78
lumb63 wrote: post #16

This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…

This was one of the promises originally of Stack Overflow: all the content is Creative Commons licensed so that if they "turned evil" (I believe it was Joel that put it this way) the community could, in a way, create a fork. https://web.archive.org/web/20230203170609/https://stackover... Unfortunately the dumps themselves are not a legal requirement, just a gentleman's agreement, so realistically exercising this abil…

So the idea is that in case leadership wants to 'carve out a kingdom' that is not in line with community wishes, the community could take the data dump and create a clone of sorts? Then now the last snapshot for doing so would be the last data drop from March?

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#183

Post by shagie »

sitkack wrote: post #181
shagie wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a number of issues that lead to the decision not to do a grab and seed of SE into codidact. There was the "what license is that post actually under? Is it 2.5? 3.0? 4.0?" which made things difficult. There was the "what are the actual attribution requirements that SE has for sites that use its content?" This is a bit of an issue because it's never really clear what those requirements are and what you need…

Thanks for the write up. https://software.codidact.com/categories/38 I haven't used codidact (sorry, name needs replacing), ok just poked around * too slow * needs type ahead find search * needs a GIST experience The site looks good, presentation is really clean. Lots to like about it. But the think that replaces SO is going to have to be a step function in capabilities. That said, just fixing the weird descend into…

Personally when the fork happened, I was interested in it... but I'm mostly "meh" about it since its another Q&A style format that maintains all the advantages and disadvantages of the format that SO provides.

I really hoped that they would have gone for something much more radical in terms of trying to create a way to share knowledge.

It's Stack(Exchange|Overflow) with better governance and a different development cycle time and focus - and I appreciate that... but its still that same Stack in terms of underlying format.

I would have been more interested if they went to something like how Discourse is different from forums. It's still a forum, but it took the structure of a forum in a new way that solves some of the traditional forum issues.

I'd also suggest checking out https://topanswers.xyz ( https://topanswers.xyz/tex is one of the more active ones). For example https://topanswers.xyz/tex?q=4593 - and you'll note that there's a chat rather than comments on a question or an answer...

But getting that community there, and stable, and growing is a very hard problem. It's one of the things that Reddit and SO are fairly successful at doing because of the network effects and the corresponding exoduses from other services when they were growing.

There was a compelling story to tell of "why do you ant to switch." There's a story now, but mastodon, Lemmy, codidact and similar haven't really stood out. It feels like "we're the same but better... if you ignore the performance of the site."

"Yea, I could switch from reading reddit to reading Lemmy... but it doesn't have a feed of 200 cat pictures I need each day for my daily dose of eye bleach."

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#184

Post by marcosdumay »

sitkack wrote: post #176
marcosdumay wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also means people are more motivated to build a replacement than just by the timewasting reddit being unavailable.

Replace them both with a model somewhat like Wikipedia, open the content for the world, and get a cut of profits from the corporations that want to use the data to train on it.

After I made that comment, I stopped for a short time to think what I would do. My conclusion was that it is much better done with something like Mastodon (or even Mastodon itself) than with a web site.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#185

Post by abetusk »

usr1106 wrote: post #165
abetusk wrote: post #72

As a reminder, all the SE sites have content under a Creative Commons, By Attribution, Share Alike license, allowing for, among other things, commercial re-use [0] [1]. Yes, it sucks that the SE sites are getting more draconian about allowing access to their content but the SE sites are well insulated against it completely disappearing precisely because they're under a libre/free license. Note that Reddit [2], nor HN…

I haven't studied the legalize, but I assume if they put all answers behind a paywall tomorrow nothing can be done. I don't think the license says they must share.

The intent is to prevent exactly this type of possibility. They may be able to put it behind a paywall and copyright future work but not work that's already been published.

Obviously not legal precedent, but there is some discussion on the matter by the Creative Commons organization [0].

[0] https://creativecommons.org/faq/#what-happens-if-the-author-...

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#187

Post by jacooper »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #114
slg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Email is a great example where most people wouldn't be interested in a version of email that only let's you email other @gmail.com users. Having a email address that can contact anyone, a phone number that can ring any other phone number etc instead of being locked into a single corporation network is a clear value add that people care about. That is only because those technologies predate those companies. Normal pe…

Surely, normal people get exhausted and burned out with how many accounts they need to create on all the platforms, just to stay in touch with everyone in their circle of friends. It was already crazy for me in the 90s days of Instant Messaging, and pidgin was a Godsend to consolidate all those accounts and friends-list into one interface. Surely normal people hate on the sheer volume of apps they need to install on…

The result of that is people stick to a know list of apps, and the chance of new apps breaking in is almost impossible.

Its why WhatsApp wasn't replaced by the mirad of chat apps that offer a better experience and better features.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#189

Post by abetusk »

karim79 wrote: post #167

What irks me about this is that 100% of their data is provided for free, by the community that they have fostered, the people like myself who have answered > 2500 questions[0], and now SO feels hard-done-by by LLMs using all their hard work to create tools like CodeGPT, GitHub copilot, etc. Were it really a site for helping developers to improve their skills and increase their productivity through the give-and-take m…

I think I see.

The economies of the internet are changing. Now with LLMs being accessible at an exponentially cheaper rate, we're seeing old models crumble and new models rising.

The era of moderated user content is changing drastically and the stalwarts of social networking, or adjacent, services are closing ranks to try and anticipate the change.

Thanks for the insight. I had a vague notion that these new policies were because of some recession or some other basic economic issue. I think a better theory is that the lowering economic cost of LLMs that are becoming available are the reason for all these changes.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#190

Post by sitkack »

marcosdumay wrote: post #184
sitkack wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace them both with a model somewhat like Wikipedia, open the content for the world, and get a cut of profits from the corporations that want to use the data to train on it.

After I made that comment, I stopped for a short time to think what I would do. My conclusion was that it is much better done with something like Mastodon (or even Mastodon itself) than with a web site.

And then community projects subscribe to the feeds and index and make searchable?

I could see basically structured toots representing questions and then ... oh man, did you just nerd snipe this?

Are you saying that it should be managed by Mastodon the org, or fediverse the technology?

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