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Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

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Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#181

Post by newZWhoDis »

throwaway290 wrote: post #109
vallismortis wrote: post #97

Twenty years ago, I moved from Michigan (a state that uses fluoride) to Mississippi (a state that doesn't use fluoride). My dentist at the time told me that I was going to end up with tooth decay if I stayed down there for more than a few years. Sure enough, five years later I moved back to Michigan and ended up with a cavity in an unusual place. My (new) dentist in Michigan was completely unsurprised. He said there…

And since oral hygiene seems to be linked to eg. Alzheimers ( https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264164 ) and flouride seems to be indispensable oral hygiene thing the issue is not so straightforward...

The link you mention is from the mouth bacteria/plaques and their leakage into the blood stream near the brain.

Fluoride is not an antibiotic, so there is no plausible mechanism for it’s known topical benefits to prevent bacterial growth that might lead to Alzheimer’s (itself a theory, but an interesting one)

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#182

Post by dtech »

vallismortis wrote: post #97

Twenty years ago, I moved from Michigan (a state that uses fluoride) to Mississippi (a state that doesn't use fluoride). My dentist at the time told me that I was going to end up with tooth decay if I stayed down there for more than a few years. Sure enough, five years later I moved back to Michigan and ended up with a cavity in an unusual place. My (new) dentist in Michigan was completely unsurprised. He said there…

Is brushing twice a day with fluoridated toothpaste and floss or similar not a thing in the US? In Europe most countries don't fluoride tap water and there's not a massive tooth decay problem.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#183

Post by zkms »

LispSporks22 wrote: post #131

I once found myself stuck in a biker bar west of Dallas. I had to listen to this old timer Hell’s Angel go on and on about fluoride conspiracies. Some of them are pretty wild - “fluoride is created by nuclear weapons construction as waste and the government has to get rid of it somehow, so in the water it goes” for example. The rest of the evening is a little hazy but I remember that. Incidentally, I used to think He…

> fluoride is created by nuclear weapons construction as waste and the government has to get rid of it somehow, so in the water it goes

Like some wild conspiracy theories, there is a kernel of truth to this one. Namely, the fluoride used in water fluoridation is indeed an industrial byproduct -- except not from nuclear weapon manufacture, but from the production of phosphate fertilizer.

From the CDC (which is definitely on the pro-fluoridation side of things) website https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/engineering/engineering-sho...

> The three fluoride additives used for water fluoridation are derived principally from phosphate fertilizer production.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#184

Post by a_bonobo »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #172
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #119

Adding fluoride to water has always seemed weird to me, since you can't control for how much water someone is drinking or account for different bodily factors like age and weight. I wonder why the European solution of adding it to salt isn't the default, especially given that iodized salt is already so popular and commonplace. As a general rule of thumb, I think it's interesting to scrutinize dosage recommendations a…

No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. Whenever you point this out, people respond with studies that focused on topical application. This topic is weird. Otherwise intelligent people shut down and begin quoting movies from the 1960’s, and are somehow incapable of distinguishing between a topical mouthwash and oral consumption. Might as well drink sunscreen and talk about the red…

>No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial.

???

>Regular toothbrushing with fluoride toothpaste is the principal non‐professional intervention to prevent caries, but the caries‐preventive effect varies according to different concentrations of fluoride in toothpaste, with higher concentrations associated with increased caries control.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6398117/

Higher concentrations lead to better caries control (unless you go too high), what other evidence do you want?

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#185

Post by newZWhoDis »

hammock wrote: post #50
bsder wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24308394/ which recommends flouridating salt. "Children and adults of the low socio-economic strata tend to have substantially more untreated caries than higher strata. Salt fluoridation is by far the cheapest method for improving oral health." Sure, good for you that you're in one of the higher socioeconomic strata who can take care of their teeth. Not everyone else is.

>recommends flouridating salt That is a scary recommendation. Would be very hard to avoid fluoride if restaurants, packaged food etc all used fluoridated salt

It already is that way. Your steak came from a cow that drank fluoridated water, the salad was watered constantly with fluoride. Your bread was baked with fluoride water, same with your coffee/beer/tea. Your Mayonnaise even.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#186

Post by arcticbull »

a_bonobo wrote: post #184
newZWhoDis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. Whenever you point this out, people respond with studies that focused on topical application. This topic is weird. Otherwise intelligent people shut down and begin quoting movies from the 1960’s, and are somehow incapable of distinguishing between a topical mouthwash and oral consumption. Might as well drink sunscreen and talk about the red…

>No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. ??? >Regular toothbrushing with fluoride toothpaste is the principal non‐professional intervention to prevent caries, but the caries‐preventive effect varies according to different concentrations of fluoride in toothpaste, with higher concentrations associated with increased caries control. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6398…

Caveat that I have no issue whatsoever with fluoride.

The parent poster said "ingestion" of fluoride, but brushing is strictly not ingestion but rather topical application - you are directed to spit it back out. I'm curious if there were studies that covered drinking it.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#187

Post by lovecg »

a_bonobo wrote: post #184
newZWhoDis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. Whenever you point this out, people respond with studies that focused on topical application. This topic is weird. Otherwise intelligent people shut down and begin quoting movies from the 1960’s, and are somehow incapable of distinguishing between a topical mouthwash and oral consumption. Might as well drink sunscreen and talk about the red…

>No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. ??? >Regular toothbrushing with fluoride toothpaste is the principal non‐professional intervention to prevent caries, but the caries‐preventive effect varies according to different concentrations of fluoride in toothpaste, with higher concentrations associated with increased caries control. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6398…

Case in point.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#188

Post by edg5000 »

jorvi wrote: post #95
ricardobeat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you that salt is not fluoridated in the Netherlands (most people who care about cooking use pure sea salt anyway). As for toothpaste, almost every toothpaste anywhere in the world has it. There is evidence both ways, the original reports were that children's dental health improved after they stopped fluoridation in the 70s.

We don’t fluoridate our water but from 12-18 we do “fluor happen” (loosely translated: “fluor biting”), where we are given an upper and a lower bit which are both filled with heavily fluoridated gel, you bite into it and after a couple of minutes you take the bits out, rinse your mouth and then spit out any left-overs.

I forgot about this. This was a total nightmare for me as a kid. The gel made me want to throw up badly. I think they offered two "flavours" you could pick from, both equally nightmarish.

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#189

Post by sgoschi »

a_bonobo wrote: post #184
newZWhoDis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. Whenever you point this out, people respond with studies that focused on topical application. This topic is weird. Otherwise intelligent people shut down and begin quoting movies from the 1960’s, and are somehow incapable of distinguishing between a topical mouthwash and oral consumption. Might as well drink sunscreen and talk about the red…

>No credible scientific evidence exists that ingesting fluoride is beneficial. ??? >Regular toothbrushing with fluoride toothpaste is the principal non‐professional intervention to prevent caries, but the caries‐preventive effect varies according to different concentrations of fluoride in toothpaste, with higher concentrations associated with increased caries control. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6398…

You're proving their point.

Brushing teeth is a topical application of flouride, unless you swallow it, of course....

Re: Health officials delayed report linking fluoride to brain harm

#190

Post by arcticbull »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #176
s0rce wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, its been a while since I worked in the area of dental fluoride (was part of my PhD) but my understanding was systemic exposure pre-eruption was still beneficial. This (possibly biased source) agrees: https://www.dentalcare.com/en-us/ce-courses/ce334/pre-erupti... Excess exposure can cause fluorosis but nothing to do with the brain.

None of the studies I have seen properly account for the lifetime effect, and instead only deduce lack of harm from flawed isolated studies. It’s in the entire water supply. You were gestated in a womb of a woman consuming highly fluoridated water. You were fed formula made with fluoridated water tuned to dose a 200lb man when you were 8lbs. The water you drank as your bones were growing was similarly overdosed The f…

> You were fed formula made with fluoridated water tuned to dose a 200lb man when you were 8lbs.

Er, no. A baby only consumes 4-8oz of water per day while an adult is consuming 125oz. The concentration is the same in both cases so the adult is getting 30X more.

> Then factor in the bell distribution and you are massively overexposing huge numbers of people a few standard deviations out.

How are you defining 'overexposed' and 'highly' in these statements. Do you have any studies or evidence? How are you deciding this consumption isn't factored into how much is put in water?

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