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Who wants to be tracked?

quantable.com

181–190 of 273 posts

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#181
post #177

My spouse will sometimes mention in conversation with others that I invented the cookie. This always puts me on the spot, and I have to enter into a long explanation of the what and the why of cookies least they believe that I some sort of evil software hacker. (Now for a short explanation so that HN readers don’t think that I’m an evil hacker: I invented them, with the help of a colleague, while at IBM where we were…

Many of us remember when cookies were purely a utility-add for end users and were restricted only to the domain which set them. Thanks for inventing that.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#182
I have a notion to test cookie banners, to check whether it makes any difference whether you [Accept] or [Reject]. I strongly suspect that for many sites, it doesn't.

Many sites seem to be offering a choice of [Accept] or [Settings]. I've never clicked on [Settings]; it might as well lead to a goatse, as far as I care. I don't want to choose options on a cookie banner at all, so why would I opt to see a complete separate page of options?

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#183
post #177

My spouse will sometimes mention in conversation with others that I invented the cookie. This always puts me on the spot, and I have to enter into a long explanation of the what and the why of cookies least they believe that I some sort of evil software hacker. (Now for a short explanation so that HN readers don’t think that I’m an evil hacker: I invented them, with the help of a colleague, while at IBM where we were…

Interesting, what kind of cookies? Like I say in the article Lou Montulli from Netscape is generally credited with creating the HTTP cookie, which they named cookie based upon magic cookies in unix, though its obviously quite a bit different.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#185
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Better question here is, why is this not handled through the browser instead of relying on individual web apps to do it. We had Do-Not-Track header once. Id did not play out very well.

Sometimes I wish GDPR included a clause stating that presence of the Do-Not-Track header equals to the user not giving consent.

Cookie-consent != tracking consent.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#186
post #55

Better question here is, why is this not handled through the browser instead of relying on individual web apps to do it. Block third party cookies by default, delete other cookies on the last tab or window closed and prompt user to save cookies on a form submit ("do not delete cookies for this domain when leaving" type of prompt, for pages with logins, settings, etc). Also remove features that make easy fingerprintin…

I might be wrong but I think the EU regulation that forced these cookie acceptance forms―I can't remember if it was GDPR or some earlier directive―specifically required that the consent submission may not be automated so that the browser can be configured to accept everything. It may have had good intentions as entities such as Microsoft would just set their browsers to default to accept all cookies anyway and a marg…

> the EU regulation that forced these cookie acceptance forms

No such regulation has ever existed in the EU.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#187
post #177

My spouse will sometimes mention in conversation with others that I invented the cookie. This always puts me on the spot, and I have to enter into a long explanation of the what and the why of cookies least they believe that I some sort of evil software hacker. (Now for a short explanation so that HN readers don’t think that I’m an evil hacker: I invented them, with the help of a colleague, while at IBM where we were…

Great, so when time travel becomes a thing, I'll add you to the list of people to have a chat with about needing to envision longer term visions for how nefarious people can be. I love that at one point in a not so distant galaxy, er time, that there was a thing of innocence. Now, that innocence can no longer be tolerated and every new thing must have more time invested on how the new thing can be abused rather than just used as intended.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#188
post #177

My spouse will sometimes mention in conversation with others that I invented the cookie. This always puts me on the spot, and I have to enter into a long explanation of the what and the why of cookies least they believe that I some sort of evil software hacker. (Now for a short explanation so that HN readers don’t think that I’m an evil hacker: I invented them, with the help of a colleague, while at IBM where we were…

There are likely dozens of others out there that can lay claim to the same. What specifically do you define as the innovation behind this “invention”?

I'm sure that many can make the same claim. In the 1980's, I was an operating systems architect working at IBM. I thought up many interesting (to me) innovations while working on the first couple of releases of the AIX on the IBM POWER hardware. It was a great job and I learned a lot doing it. I got to work with some really brilliant developers and computer scientists (a number from IBM Research).

One project I was responsible for was the development of a distributed file system for AIX. The goal was a distributed file system that addressed some of the weaknesses found in other distributed file systems at the time. Our chief competitor was Sun's NFS distributed file system. NFS was a really nice design. It was well integrated into the operating system and quite reliable because it utilized a (mostly) stateless server. This had a number of performance and security implications along with some file system semantics over NFS that didn't match local file system semantics. We wanted to introduce state for the server to address these issues and thought of a number of complex protocols to manage it in the presence of unreliable clients. That's when I thought up the idea of making the clients keep their own state to be restored when they reconnected to the server. I protected this state from manipulation by the client by encrypting it. I didn't call them cookies, I called them tokens.

This design was patented by IBM and I was one of the two inventors on the patent. This patent was owned by IBM and years later they gave a special award for this patent because it decided that it was one of IBM's most important patents. (They wouldn't have done this unless the patent had held up to scrutiny or legal challenges). Unfortunately, by that time I had already left IBM to start my own company--I was at the top of my game and had confidence that I could create a software product of some kind that would be successful--so I missed out on the financial award for the patent. By then, I was at my new company and already in competition with IBM.

By now, the patent should be long expired. Interestingly, IBM ended up buying my company around seven years after I and a partner started it.

I was very aware of the academic literature and industrial practice during this time so I do believe that my invention does reflect original work that ended up with a very significant impact.

From a more personal perspective, the invention didn't financially benefit me. The work that I did at my company own was more creative, inventive, technically impactful, and financially important to me. For example, Austin Ventures has indicated that my company was the start of Austin becoming an important high-tech location, but none of that was related to the cookie.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#189
post #15

I have switched one of my sites to cookieless analytics and it is bad for everybody. I can't even say how many users this site has now. It could be the same user coming back over and over. Or many users. How would I know. Yes, I could track a ton of stats about every pageview like user agent, screen resolution etc and then try to stitch it back together. Trying to figure out how many different users there are. But th…

> and it is bad for everybody

Hang on, it's not bad for me. If I visit your site, it's not because I want to participate in some kind of A/B testing (whose results you'll never tell me about). And if your site only works if I happen to have hardware X installed, you don't need analytics to tell you that your site is broken.

> European companies need to bug all users and beg for cookies.

That's nonsense. If cookies are needed for the correct operation of the site, then there's no need to beg or bug.

So your banner should be saying: "Can I please set tracking cookies that make no difference at all to the correct operation of the site? [Accept] [Reject]". Then count the number that say Accept, note that the number is approximately zero, and then scrap the banner.

Re: Who wants to be tracked?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I think it was Microsoft who killed the DNT header by enabling it by default.

Given a boolean flag, if 94% of users would select state X, then selecting X by default doesn't seem problematic at all. Microsoft (for once) did nothing wrong. The problem is the DNT flag was unenforceable, and that's something governments should have pushed on.

> and that's something governments should have pushed on

They did. Our current anti-tracking laws all come from pushing on that.

The problem is that the DNT is way too simplistic. Browsers fail to inform the users abut it and keep track of sites independently, and the protocol fails to allow the site to request fine-grained authorizations and inform why they are needed.

There's a sibling talking about P3P that has neither of those problems.

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