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Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#181

Post by arandomhuman »

adastra22 wrote: post #166
alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before. Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

I feel like this is a bit unusual: "I told them they can get one when they write an app"

Why are you insisting that they publish an app on the app store, are they keenly interested in software development or something?

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#182

Post by jefc1111 »

My sub 10 years old kid has a smartphone, but it has no sim card and runs a Google child account, so nothing can be installed without me approving, and it only knows about the home wi-fi. We also control how much it is used and it is not left in the bedroom at night. Previously it was actually locked into kiosk mode with Spotify Kids being the only accessible app. Great way to use an old phone. It even has a broken screen but we've now had 3 years extra use (Galaxy S7).

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#183

Post by 23B1 »

raincole wrote: post #43
23B1 wrote: post #24

This is one of those obvious correlations that for some reason everyone needs to question. It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. I'm no luddite, but it's pretty obvious that humans aren't meant to be bent over little black rectangles all day, addicted to our own insecurities.

The "obvious" correlations are the ones that need to be questioned the most.

"I understand you think the water is wet and the sky is blue – but what does wet mean? What does blue mean?"

Great questions for interesting philosophical and academic debate.

Silly questions for deciding how to, say, raise kids.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#184

Post by rootusrootus »

kyleyeats wrote: post #58

Phones make the bad situations worse. If your parents are bullies, it's worse to have a phone. If your peers are bullies, it's worse to have a phone. If a kid is in one of these situations, it's a little ridiculous to consider the phone the problem. It's like identifying belts as a big harm to kids last century because you don't want to deal with the actual problem of people hitting their kids with belts.

I think this is an important point. I see it with my own kids. I'd have no problem giving my 10 year old son a smartphone. My 12 year old daughter, on the other hand ... the thought terrifies me. I already know very much how they interact socially, both in person and online, and it's not the phone that worries me. It amplifies already existing issues.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#185

Post by hydrok9 »

alexb_ wrote: post #45

There is so much instant dismissal of this entire idea that smartphones are harmful in this thread, most of which is just "correlation is not causation". Yes, correlation does not equal causation. But when it makes logical sense why there would be correlation, there is no way to actually measure causation (we can't exactly give kids placebo phones), we keep seeing the same correlation over and over again, why is it b…

I'll add this. Smartphones give children instant access to instant stimulation, and it gives children access to an escapist fantasy world. Both of those things, if used to self-medicate, will cause mental health issues.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#186

Post by rootusrootus »

I'm not sure it even really matters if you give kids a smartphone or not. The schools give them chromebooks, which basically allows the same problematic social media access. Sure, they try to put filters in place, but kids are resourceful. I hear regularly from my daughter about the things she does on that chromebook in class that I don't really permit (except in small doses) at home.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#187

Post by hydrok9 »

nh23423fefe wrote: post #78
tgv wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Writing off all of this ..., makes no sense. It does make sense when you think of it as an addiction. Many people fear giving up their phone. They think it's essential. They feel it. They live it.

Imagining you understand the motivations of diverse non-coordinating groups of people by labeling them addicts isn't persuasive or clarifying.

It's addictive behaviour, we've all seen it.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#188

Post by Tokkemon »

IceHegel wrote: post #40
23B1 wrote: post #24

This is one of those obvious correlations that for some reason everyone needs to question. It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. I'm no luddite, but it's pretty obvious that humans aren't meant to be bent over little black rectangles all day, addicted to our own insecurities.

There was a period of time from about 2011-2013 where it felt like many parents would complain about everyone being on their phone. Then they started using them too and stopped complaining.

Yup, saw that exact reaction in my own parents.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#189

Post by newsclues »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #124
IceHegel wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a period of time from about 2011-2013 where it felt like many parents would complain about everyone being on their phone. Then they started using them too and stopped complaining.

As a parent, I’m seeing a very clear division in parenting style among my peers. Some parents allow screen time with moderation and caution because they know what excessive use leads to. The other group sees nothing wrong and screens are everywhere all the time. My friend circles are exclusively in the first group, from daycare to schools to friends. So much so that at first I thought everyone was like this. Then I s…

Smartphones and social media are tools.

Drugs are tools.

Both can be used or abused.

Re: Kids who get smartphones earlier become adults with worse mental health

#190

Post by Tokkemon »

23B1 wrote: post #183
raincole wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "obvious" correlations are the ones that need to be questioned the most.

"I understand you think the water is wet and the sky is blue – but what does wet mean? What does blue mean?" Great questions for interesting philosophical and academic debate. Silly questions for deciding how to, say, raise kids.

Way to totally miss the point.
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