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Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

mullvad.net

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Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#181

Post by lofaszvanitt »

pedro_hab wrote: post #71

I don't understand why go after the VPN, I think most people don't use a VPN correctly. What good is a VPN when multiple apps on your computer are phoning home? If the law has a suspect IP, couldn't they just ask google, microsoft and facebook what accounts were accessed with that IP? To use a VPN correctly wouldn't have to use a fresh OS and absolutely not login to any accounts connected to the IP you are trying to…

You put the vpn on a physical device (router), so there is no way to circumvent it on the os level.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#182

Post by 93po »

Etheryte wrote: post #135
quickthrower2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor exists though fwiw

Tor exists, but realistically the overhead of using Tor is not acceptable to the general public. As long as Tor is sufficiently slow compared to everyday traffic it will remain a niche use case. A good VPN on the other hand gives you at least a little bit of privacy without much of a cost.

I've looked at Tor recently just out of curiosity for the tech and I found browsing to be plenty fast. Admittedly it was plain text sites with no images or whatever. And the installation/use of the Tor browser was easy.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#183

Post by troad »

kkielhofner wrote: post #174
benmmurphy wrote: post #166

Is this a warrant canary? Maybe the police seized machines but they were blocked from commenting so they published this implausible claim the police went away empty handed.

I'm an American (keep that in mind) but I have been to Sweden many many times throughout my entire life (my dad worked there). It's a great place and somewhat famously the "Swedish Subway Cops"[0] highlighted the difference between US and Swedish policing seven years ago. All of that said I find it highly, highly implausible that law enforcement anywhere in the world would show up with a warrant and just walk out wit…

Warrants generally have to be for something. It’s possible that the police officers showed up with a warrant for user names and addresses, etc, and Mullvad was able to demonstrate that they don’t possess any data responsive to the warrant. At that point there may not have been anything to (lawfully) carry away.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that the cops won’t show up tomorrow with a more generic warrant, and Mullvad may have to hand over whatever information it does possess.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#184

Post by hnarn »

kkielhofner wrote: post #174
benmmurphy wrote: post #166

Is this a warrant canary? Maybe the police seized machines but they were blocked from commenting so they published this implausible claim the police went away empty handed.

I'm an American (keep that in mind) but I have been to Sweden many many times throughout my entire life (my dad worked there). It's a great place and somewhat famously the "Swedish Subway Cops"[0] highlighted the difference between US and Swedish policing seven years ago. All of that said I find it highly, highly implausible that law enforcement anywhere in the world would show up with a warrant and just walk out wit…

The people that attend when these warrants are executed are highly technically skilled, and obviously Swedish surveillance agencies know Mullvad very well, probably intimately (ie it wouldn’t surprise me if they even have an understanding of their infrastructure).

It’s not at all “highly implausible” that they showed up for a technical discussion to see if the data they wanted but were almost certain did not exist could be retrieved.

If they are confident that this data does not exist, why would they start seizing hardware? As I said: they probably have a basic understanding of how their infrastructure works (especially since Mullvad is fairly open about it), and they likely understand that the second they power off those servers and move them, they are never booting up the same again.

So yeah, what you describe as “look at line 45” is not a silly example, because it’s probably more access than they would ever get than if Mullvad met them with hostility.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#185

Post by hnarn »

tejohnso wrote: post #156

> Mullvad has been operating our VPN service for over 14 years. This is the first time our offices have been visited with a search warrant. Does a search warrant detail the reason and justification for the warrant, or are you left in the dark about what all the hassle and disruption was even about?

Yes it does, but Mullvad may have good reasons for not sharing it. For example that it does nothing to improve their information to their customers (ie what exactly is being investigated is irrelevant for the public), while simultaneously damaging the investigation and therefore their relationship with the government.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#186

Post by kkielhofner »

Marsymars wrote: post #150
tsukikage wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did notice that phrase doing a lot of work there. I'm actually super curious: when a bunch of goons turn up on your doorstep fully expecting to cart away boxes of electronics, /how on earth/ do you "demonstrate that this is indeed how our service works", there and then on the spot, in a sufficiently convincing manner that they leave again empty-handed?

I’ve got no real insight, but my guess would be that a) the goons have both technical and legal competence and b) Mullvad had legal representation show up quickly.

Have legal representation show up quickly means nothing.

Consider the many, many scenarios where search warrants are served on companies with in house legal. Law firms. Individual lawyers. Literally happens every single day.

Law enforcement has a warrant signed by a judge. Just because a lawyer of some sort is there doesn't mean they're going to stand around paralyzed saying "Oh there's a lawyer here, better stop what I'm doing and wait for XYZ".

They're going to say "Oh you're a lawyer? Good for you. Here's a copy. Get out of the way and stand over there."

Same thing for any technical or legal competence on the part of the authorities. You assembled enough cause for the warrant to be issued and you're going to walk away because the subject of the warrant basically says "Well see, I can explain everything..."?

This is probably the equivalent of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking his way out of a speeding ticket on the side of the road by giving one of his (in)famous "Well actually officer, the Earth revolves around the sun while turning on it's axis at 25k MPH so actually I was..."[0].

Their version of events makes absolutely no sense to me.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyZSBqQ813c

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#187

Post by stametseater »

hnarn wrote: post #179
bragr wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a specious argument, because the choice could be between logging your traffic and being forced to shutdown under some kind of Swedish NSL, or forced to keep operating and logging even if they want to shut down. Not saying this is what happened, just that your reasoning doesn't really hold. Hell it's entirely possible Mullvad is a honeypot operated by some foreign intelligence service.

> it's entirely possible Mullvad is a honeypot operated by some foreign intelligence service. “Entirely” possible? Sure, I guess it’s “entirely” possible that the NSA is actually controlled by a reptilian, illuminati cabal of extraterrestrials, while we’re just making stuff up without any factual basis whatsoever.

Bad faith responses like this lashing out at people like bragr make me even more suspicious. You know damn well, or should know, that companies secretly being owned by intelligence agencies is something that has happened before and could happen again. Meanwhile there is no evidence at all for reptilian ETs ever existing.

And furthermore, I am sure you know that when dealing with matters of security, it pays to exercise precaution and be wary of scenarios you cannot prove to be happening at the moment. E.g., you don't know your new friend you met at the bus stop is secret police, an informant for the Vichy government, but until you're damn sure he isn't then you don't let him know the location of your resistance safehouse. You don't need to have proof that your new friend has done anything wrong to be cautious of that possibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#189

Post by hnarn »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #160

Does anyone have a Nord vs Mullvad on speed of servers in the USA. I’m ending out my Nord and want to switch, but man, I’m actually surprised at how fast Nord’s servers are, I can get 500mbps on non-peak times.

The main difference is that Mullvad cares about privacy while Nord is a cash-grab operation that sponsors youtubers.

Re: Mullvad VPN was subject to a search warrant – customer data not compromised

#190

Post by vorpalhex »

bragr wrote: post #95
hnarn wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technically they could have been logging your traffic Of course they “could have” but their entire business depends on them not doing it.

That's a specious argument, because the choice could be between logging your traffic and being forced to shutdown under some kind of Swedish NSL, or forced to keep operating and logging even if they want to shut down. Not saying this is what happened, just that your reasoning doesn't really hold. Hell it's entirely possible Mullvad is a honeypot operated by some foreign intelligence service.

It's possible you're in a coma and everything you're experiencing is a terribly detailed dream.

It's not very likely though.

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