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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#181

Post by Waterluvian »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It's all relative. The safest parts of the U.S. still feel like too much for me. And I'm sure where I grew up in Canada would seem like a post-apocalyptic hellscape to some others around the world.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#182

Post by cemerick »

idopmstuff wrote: post #169
stickfigure wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

The problem with saying that SF has relatively low violent crime is that it ignores the constant, extremely aggressive verbal assault that people are just accustomed to. In the years I lived there, I had people scream at me that they were going to kill/stab/etc. me at least a couple of dozen times (I would describe this as violent crime). Of course, if you call SFPD, they'll just tell you it's not an issue and ignore…

You're right, "violent crime" is a term of art that involves the commission of a…crime. "Verbal assault" is not assault. I guess if you don't like the vibes in a place, you can go somewhere else, but trying to use such things to influence how people talk about or perceive actual, no, for real crime is intellectual malpractice.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#183

Post by joncrocks »

scarmig wrote: post #112
cemerick wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People see homelessness and open drug use and petty property crime, filter it through their ideological lens, and amplify that into feeling that they are themselves somehow less safe. You can assert that that is rational, but it's as connected to reality as someone feeling afraid when e.g. a black person is walking behind them. Saying stuff like "a lot of [violent] crime goes unreported" is straight up fanciful think…

> People aren't reporting assaults? Sounds completely absurd. One reason this explanation falls flat is that reported and recorded property crimes have risen more. If the city were exceptionally underreporting crimes compared to the past or other cities, you'd see those disappear from the statistics more than e.g. homicides; it's much easier to ignore a stolen phone than it is a dead body.

Could that not be that you need to report/record a crime for insurance purposes?

There might be a good reason people would report some crimes over others for reasons over and above simply for the sake of reporting them/having them solved.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#184

Post by somenameforme »

grogenaut wrote: post #173
reddog wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including current faves Austin and Miami Austin has 2.57 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters per 100K. Same year, SF has 6.35 per 100K. So SF is twice as bad as Austin. Your right about Miami though. But 6.35 isn't bad. The murder rate in St Louis (for comparision to the US city with the worst) is 66.07 per 100K. And Colima Mexico (worst in the world maybe) is 182 murders per 100K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

I grew up in St Louis. We didn't worry so much about murder for cause as someone had to specifically dislike you (cheating on/with spouse for example). We just watched the street crime rates. That said moving to the west coast people freak out all the time about yearly murder rates that are a weekend in STL.

A lot depends a lot on distribution, which surface level stats don't reveal. I've lived in very high crime rates that were perfectly safe because it was a mixture of 'don't go to these areas' and basic interpersonal stuff. I've also lived in areas that were far safer on paper, but were substantially more dangerous for me because crime was far more 'equal opportunity.' I've no idea of the situation in San Francisco but this could easily explain the perception : stats relationship.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#185

Post by CalChris »

nightski wrote: post #136
rootusrootus wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that. I admit to buying the narrative. Part of that is because my nearest city of any substance is Portland, and it's not especially violent. SF does look more violent compared to Portland, but objectively SF is actually just average or less. Lots of big cities are more violent[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

This data is from 2019, pre-pandemic and almost 5 years ago. Things have changed.

Has it? 2019 is the latest aggregation the FBI publishes. Looking at the SFPD Dashboard, homicide hasn't changed from last year at 13.

https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#186

Post by vkou »

Vervious wrote: post #134
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

A ton of people care about property crime and I don't think you should look down on them. SF has 3-5x the property crime of most major cities in the United States. I imagine most violent crime is targeted (i.e. the victim is not a random person walking down the street), but property crime is scary because it can happen to the best of us, our friends and our family, in even the "safest" neighborhoods. We all know frie…

You're performing a sleight of hand. No city census or national crime analysis categorizes burglary as a violent crime, and I'm not sure why you called SF out on it.

I don't look down on people complaining about property crime, I'd just like them to be honest about what they are complaining about.

SF is 55 out of the biggest 100 cities on burglary rates, by the way.

(It's interesting how all this is apparently a controversial take.)

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#187

Post by jzellis »

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments there.

I loved the Tenderloin back then, even though it was terrifying. It was full of weirdos and loonies and junkies and poverty stricken artsy types like me, who had no power or desire in gentrification - we were just poor too. But we embraced where we were and didn't try to change it. The loin changed me far more than my presence changed it - for the better. It taught me compassion and empathy and how to avoid getting knifed by a junkie in the alleyway.

Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go, and you still complain when they dare to pop up where you are. I hope all that authenticity and exposed brick in your offices and apartments are worth it.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#188

Post by rajup »

cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

That goes both ways. I wonder if you would come back to this comment when one of your held beliefs are disproven. I won’t derail this thread into what it might be, but I won’t hold my breath…

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#189

Post by freejazz »

stickfigure wrote: post #135
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that. I lived in SF for ~15 years, experienced multiple car breakins (when I had a car) and one weird guy who walked up to me on the street and said "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" (which I somehow calmly ignored). For the record, I didn't com…

>It feels a bit like you're championing a narrative of "See, it's not so bad! You'll just get your stuff stolen and your car vandalized!" I wouldn't feel so smug about that.

You are making the poster's exact point for them. Take a step back, breathe, think.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#190

Post by deanCommie »

joering2 wrote: post #161

"Help!" he shouted, according to a local report. "Someone stabbed me." [1] He was in the car with suspect yet he says "someone stabbed me" ?? https://www.foxnews.com/us/cash-app-founder-bob-lee-died-ple... edit: it still doesn't make sense to me. If someone I know stabs me and I assume I have few minutes to live and call 911, I would say "help, Joe Doe stabbed me". I wouldn't say "someone", because that implies a str…

Hes not saying "I would like to report a murder and tell you who did it, their full name, and social security number"

He's reporting his status and begging for help. He's thinking about survival.

What do you expect to have said in his situation?

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