(disclaimer that I manage a climate group, but not a rice expert) They touch on, but don't get into the details on one of the more interesting aspects of perennial rice. Rice fields are actually a huge emitter of methane. Depending on the accounting, they contribute as much to global warming as the aviation sector. The fields emit methane when flooded, the stagnant water gets oxygen depleted, and the biomass in the s…
Damn is there any commodity crop that isn't an environmental disaster?
Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
181–190 of 296 posts
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
The aviation sector is about 2%. Sounds like another premature optimization problem, as applied to climate change. “Premature optimization is the root of all evil“ https://wiki.c2.com/?PrematureOptimization= What about coal? What about coal?
Why do people keep pretending that we can only focus on one industry at a time? News flash: WE CAN ADDRESS MORE THAN ONE AT A TIME. What about coal? You tell me, what part of fixing rice production interferes with shutting down coal mining? Because as far as anyone can tell, the answer is not a single part.
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose if we didn’t wait decades to eliminate the big problems, we’d have more time to worry about the smaller problems. A 100 years of coal emissions is 1000 years of rice.
Did the people working on rice hamper the work on coal? Or is the issue that they're wasting their time by doing anything but trying to get rid of coal? As best I can tell, neither you nor I are working on coal either.
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#184(disclaimer that I manage a climate group, but not a rice expert) They touch on, but don't get into the details on one of the more interesting aspects of perennial rice. Rice fields are actually a huge emitter of methane. Depending on the accounting, they contribute as much to global warming as the aviation sector. The fields emit methane when flooded, the stagnant water gets oxygen depleted, and the biomass in the s…
The aviation sector is about 2%. Sounds like another premature optimization problem, as applied to climate change. “Premature optimization is the root of all evil“ https://wiki.c2.com/?PrematureOptimization= What about coal? What about coal?
You don't balance a budget by only looking at the tallest tent pole.
You have to ask yourself what proportion of the overall budget a particular concern is 'worth' and figure out how to get there. Until that total is reduced to From there you chip away at each element as the opportunity arises, balancing opportunity against cost (both of action and inaction). If something proves to be too hard to change, you have to compromise elsewhere. And in the long run, order only matters if you go bankrupt in the middle of the process.
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on the action. Gluing oneself to the street in order to prevent 5% of 2% of an industry that is rapidly shifting to EVs is questionable, for example.
Heard about someone who glued themselves to rails before a coal plant. Allegedly that prevented the equivalent of 800 years of average western european lifestyle emissions. Here I'm trying to get my own climate warming impact to be at least close to zero (and failing), and this dude has a 10x impact by doing nothing but sitting on rail for a bit. The cost is losing 9 months of their life on jail time. (Definitely an…
That won't even offset my own impact on the rest of the world. But I'm showing up to meetings with other people, giving advice, hopefully some inspiration, as well as plants to make the process a little more accessible to other people.
Best case at the end of this, I've helped dozens of people reduce their carbon footprint, and they've helped hundreds do the same, and so on. All of us will still have a positive carbon footprint, but we've called into question what the average footprint should look like. Us and a hundred other people who think about things like transportation or building standards or entertainment.
The end goal is that becoming a giver instead of a taker represents sacrificing 10% of your lifestyle instead of 75%. It's very hard to peer pressure people into giving up 75% of what makes life worth living.
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#186In one of his videos in Youtube, permaculture farmer Richard Perkins said that mankind has 6000 years of agriculture, but has mostly concentrated plant breeding efforts to annual plants. We mostly eat annuals. (Plants that grow and die in one year.) But, he said, imagine what kind of perennial (plants that live multiple years) food plants we could have, if we invested similar 6000 years of effort to perfecting perenn…
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
To put this into context, animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of the worlds CO2 emissions, uses 83% of the world's farmland, but only produces 18% of our calories and 37% of our protein.
I really wish there was a name (that I knew of) for this logical fallacy of using precise quantities of meaninglessly confused categories. What do you think "farmland" is ? Our ancestors who knew how to raise cattle and farm cereals for millennia were surviving on the verge of starvation : why do you think that was ? Were they so dumb they'd rather die of hunger than convert some of their grazing pastures to cereal a…
"every statistic you will ever encounter online or from coworkers"
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for redoing the math I did, and confirming I was exactly correct with figures. The increase in concentration is observable, but the impact on climate is not. Again: this increase is similar to increase between 2000 and 2020. Without extremely careful and precise measurements, nobody would really be able to perceive any difference in climate between these two dates. This matters, because it is the perceived…
> this increase is similar to increase between 2000 and 2020. Without extremely careful and precise measurements, nobody would really be able to perceive any difference in climate between these two dates. If that's how you work then nothing has any impact whatsoever, cars, planes, cattle, over twenty years if you split everything in sub categories they're all negligible Meanwhile we clearly already can measure the ef…
> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
Why unnecessarily double down on this very hypothetical scenario,
> Suppose we grow twice as much rice as we do now. […] Hell, let’s actually assume that all existing methane in atmosphere is from rice fields, and actually increase amount of methane in atmosphere by a factor of 2.
when GP's main point was: Absorption & emissions by rice plants are in a steady state – they emit methane into the atmosphere, it breaks down to CO2 and water over the course of a few decades, and then the plants absorb the CO2 again.
As a consequence, as long as the number of rice plantations doesn't increase, the amount of methane in the atmosphere due to rice will stay largely constant. There will certainly be fluctuations because, as was mentioned:
> At best, growing rice and flooding fields might affect the balance between the amount of methane and amount of CO2 in the steady state,
but
> this is of no practical consequence, because the methane will not accumulate year over year, like the emissions from fossil fuels do
and the current total amount of methane in the atmosphere due to rice (which, again, is constant) – on its own – does not have devastating effects, as outlined by GP's hypothetical argument of doubling the amount of rice in the atmosphere. Put differently, reducing the amount of rice plants in the world would not provide any leverage against global warming.
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#189(disclaimer that I manage a climate group, but not a rice expert) They touch on, but don't get into the details on one of the more interesting aspects of perennial rice. Rice fields are actually a huge emitter of methane. Depending on the accounting, they contribute as much to global warming as the aviation sector. The fields emit methane when flooded, the stagnant water gets oxygen depleted, and the biomass in the s…
Re: Perennial rice: Plant once, harvest again and again
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, you missed the point: there is an enormous difference between methane emissions from fresh organic matter, and emission from fossil fuels. The latter accumulate , while the former do not. That’s why as we continue incrementally burning fossil fuels, the effects accumulate and affect climate over decades or centuries, but decaying weeds or (fashionable to discuss a couple of years back) cattle burps and farts do n…
> the effect of cattle farts and weeds decaying on rice fields will only ever be observable using precise scientific instruments, whereas effect of burning fossil fuels for centuries will be very readily perceivable with very crude techniques It’s a fine distinction, and I’m glad you made it, but the arguments for why it doesn’t matter don’t stick. Gross imperceptibility does work for any small amount of any emission…
I'm not so sure. GP's argument was that when people say rice/cattle release so-and-so much methane into the atmosphere per year, the fact that it's a cycle and the amount of methane & CO2 in the atmosphere due to rice/cattle remains constant is usually ignored.
Meanwhile, burning fossil fuel, increasing air traffic (-> water in the atmosphere), etc. actually increase the total amount of green house gases in the atmosphere, year by year.
Sure, we could think about reducing the constant amount of methane in the atmosphere due to cattle/rice by reducing cattle/rice but, in light of emissions due to fossil fuel accumulating year by year, this doesn't seem to be the most pressing issue by a large margin.