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The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

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Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#181

Post by MuffinFlavored »

Jedd wrote: post #176

The numbers, and explanations, are both fascinating and despairing. But, as an outsider (AU) looking in, they're not at all surprising. Getting most of my information about the USA from what might be called (there) as left-leaning (but elsewhere as centrist) -- or witty aphorisms like 'Russia's about to find out why we don't have health care' (wrt weapons shipment to Ukraine), or the despairingly persistently applica…

off the top of my head/out of my ass:

i don’t go to the doctor

i don’t work out

i eat poorly (the american diet is poison but addictive/hard to avoid)

i don’t go outside (too busy inside working/addicted to a dollar)

then add mass shootings

then add drunk driving/texting and driving

cancer

etc

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#182

Post by r2_pilot »

bitwize wrote: post #141
japhyr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't require a repeal of the second amendment. That just requires a willingness to interpret the full text of the amendment, instead of focusing only on the last four words. School shootings are far down the list as far as fatalities go. But that's a poor way to measure the impact of school shootings. The trauma inflicted by each of these events goes way beyond the number of children killed. Everyone who has…

The full text of the amendment is pretty clear that "a well-regulated militia" depends upon "the right of the people to keep and bear arms", it does not limit that right. In order to train farmers and craftsmen into an effective reserve fighting force, they have to have weapons of their own they can practice with. Times have changed, obviously, and civil society no longer depends on citizen firearm ownership. You can…

Remember, the Constitution was crafted by men of their time, and they explicitly stated it was not a suicide pact and that future generations were fully allowed to amend it should they find the desire. We can probably find a compromise that greatly reduces gun violence, if only compromise could be made.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#183

Post by s1artibartfast »

bohadi wrote: post #159
s1artibartfast wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the comment. If the life expectancy drops, there are fewer elderly to care for. If people don't make it to 70, you don't have to care for 70+ year Olds. It is a fair thought experiment to explore. Depending on what your priorities are, it could be optimal for everyone to die before retirement age.

>Depending on priorities, it could be optimal what possible priorities... sounds like the humanity extincting AGI has already gotten free /s If civilization needs to adopt such measures it must be in deep crisis.

Ignoring the sarcasm, hey there's a fascinating question. It asked what our society's priorities are.

These aren't new questions or unique. Any country on the planet could extend lifespan if it wanted to spend more money. The question is who pays or what services do you cut. Would you cut schools to extend lifespan 5 years? Maybe everyone lives in tiny little boxes but people live to 90.

An American Healthcare System there is low hanging fruit where you could improve outcomes for a low cost. That said, how far do you take it?

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#184

Post by jeffbee »

WalterBright wrote: post #174
bilbo0s wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah! Deaths by billion vehicle miles in UK - 5.2. In US - 12.5. (both have tens of thousands of KSI, but the US has over twice as many per cap. In fact, way, more KSI from car accidents than even gun related homicide in the US. I hadn't realized that!) Deaths by gun related homicide in UK - 200. In US - 20000. (Both numbers pale in comparison to motor vehicle deaths, but there are a lot more in the US. Probably to b…

> I hadn't realized that! That's because the media only reports on unusual deaths. For example, sometimes I'll see the emergency crews pulling a body out of Lake Washington. It never makes the news. Drowning deaths are too common.

Many drownings could have been prevented but it's still a relatively niche cause of death. Unintentional drowning is ten times less frequent than either of falling or motor vehicle crashes, which are about the same frequency. The main way that drownings could be prevented among adults is by enforcing alcohol rules, or having some in the first place, but that goes against the entire theme of American water recreation. Which is sort of the point of the article: dying unnecessarily is part of the culture of America.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#185

Post by WalterBright »

bitwize wrote: post #141
japhyr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't require a repeal of the second amendment. That just requires a willingness to interpret the full text of the amendment, instead of focusing only on the last four words. School shootings are far down the list as far as fatalities go. But that's a poor way to measure the impact of school shootings. The trauma inflicted by each of these events goes way beyond the number of children killed. Everyone who has…

The full text of the amendment is pretty clear that "a well-regulated militia" depends upon "the right of the people to keep and bear arms", it does not limit that right. In order to train farmers and craftsmen into an effective reserve fighting force, they have to have weapons of their own they can practice with. Times have changed, obviously, and civil society no longer depends on citizen firearm ownership. You can…

> We should probably repeal and replace the First Amendment while we're at it, and tie up some loose ends like Citizens United and the inability of U.S. governments to criminally punish hate speech.

I am not a gun nut, and have little interest in owning/shooting guns. I've done it, and found it boring. But my defense of the 2nd Amendment is based on the domino theory that if the 2nd can be ignored, there goes the First and every other "inconvenient" right enshrined in the Constitution. The First is the most important of all those Rights.

Thanks for illustrating I am right that the First would be put on the chopping block right after the Second.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#186

Post by jeffbee »

Avshalom wrote: post #125
bilbo0s wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah! Deaths by billion vehicle miles in UK - 5.2. In US - 12.5. (both have tens of thousands of KSI, but the US has over twice as many per cap. In fact, way, more KSI from car accidents than even gun related homicide in the US. I hadn't realized that!) Deaths by gun related homicide in UK - 200. In US - 20000. (Both numbers pale in comparison to motor vehicle deaths, but there are a lot more in the US. Probably to b…

Youth suicide has always been pretty bad in the US and it's getting worse https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/youth-suicide-rates-are-... That's from 2019, numbers for the last 3 years are a little harder get but like attempts went up but deaths went down at least in most places but in a couple places deaths shot up a lot? https://www.nichd.nih.gov/newsroom/news/042722-COVID-adolesc... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us…

Youth suicide in the US has been in the press a lot lately but it's not really one of those things that's really bad or getting worse. It's less frequent than it was years ago, and less frequent than in many OECD countries. That sets it apart from the overall picture which shows the US to be worse than all other advanced countries and rapidly getting worse.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#187

Post by wizofaus »

wizofaus wrote: post #144
retrac wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the uptick in driving fatalities [...] An entire generation has to be that much more reckless Smartphones.

Which are omnipresent all over the world but I don't believe the uptick in traffic fatalities is (at least in Australia they were considerably lower in 2020-21 due to covid lockdowns. Mind you we also have very strict laws and stiff fines for mobile phone usage while in control of a vehicle, even if it's idling in traffic or, yes, in a drive-thru lane - technically it's illegal to use your phone to pay in that scenar…

(Just checked, and while there was a slight increase in 2022, road fatalities are still very much trending downward in Aus. Fairly sure we have similar levels of mobile phone usage. We've also seen a surge in average car size, though the sort of massive pickup trucks that seem common in the US are thankfully relatively rare here, despite the popularity of "utes")

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#188

Post by WalterBright »

jeffbee wrote: post #184
WalterBright wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hadn't realized that! That's because the media only reports on unusual deaths. For example, sometimes I'll see the emergency crews pulling a body out of Lake Washington. It never makes the news. Drowning deaths are too common.

Many drownings could have been prevented but it's still a relatively niche cause of death. Unintentional drowning is ten times less frequent than either of falling or motor vehicle crashes, which are about the same frequency. The main way that drownings could be prevented among adults is by enforcing alcohol rules, or having some in the first place, but that goes against the entire theme of American water recreation.…

> Many drownings could have been prevented but it's still a relatively niche cause of death.

I read somewhere that drownings were the 2nd leading cause of death for children. Cars were #1.

People drown mainly because they underestimate the risk of it.

I know parents who had their toddler drown. The grief and devastation of that never stops, decade after decade. They had camped near a river bank, and the kid wandered off into the water.

Re: The average American has the same life expectancy as the worst part of England

#190

Post by 0xDEF »

As a Danish person I was chocked by the amount of fat people I saw in the US.

I know the non-fat healthy Americans on HN and reddit don't like this being brought up and would rather blame "the system". But even the Danish healthcare system would collapse if we were as fat as you.

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