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HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

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Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#181

Post by rlpb »

hakfoo wrote: post #57
esperent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just once, I would like to see an AMA by someone who was directly involved in creating a user-hostile feature We don't need an AMA, we already know the answer. Money. The company exists to make money. The fact that it also creates printers is a side effect, not its primary purpose. Once you look at it in this way, there's nothing confusing about user hostile features. They exist to further the primary purpose of th…

I'd argue there's still some interesting math going on there. PC hardware is still very much an industry of "I'll ask the enthusiast kid down the street what to buy"-- the sort of business where souring a small number of power users can blow back with a lot of lost mainstream consumer sales. Do they assume that the "enthusiast kid down the street" is already a lost cause and figure he's never even going to buy a HP p…

> PC hardware is still very much an industry of "I'll ask the enthusiast kid down the street what to buy"

I don't think that applies to HP, and suspect that most of their customer base are big businesses who prefer business type reasons for their purchasing decisions

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#182

Post by dbspin »

m463 wrote: post #53
coda_ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also like my brother, but it will attempt to detect and reject non-authentic ink. I don't update mine anymore because the last time I did, it rejected my cartridges.

I have a brother HL-2360DW circa 2017, with a new brother large-size authentic toner cartridge. I never hooked it to the internet, never updated the firmware. And it started saying low toner even though I've put (far?) less than 250 sheets through it. There was a way to turn off the low toner warnings, I did it, and seem to be ok, but it makes me wonder. EDIT: wow, it sells for $449 on amazon. I paid $115 in 2017.

That's hilarious. I have exactly the same printer. It's recently survived moving between countries not particularly carefully packed, twice. Working like a champ. I've had months where it's printed thousands of pages (radio drama rehearsal scripts for multiple cast members). Absolutely fantastic printer. Unsurprised to see its become a beloved classic.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#183

Post by thombat »

ornornor wrote: post #155
neilv wrote: post #142

If you have a modern HP printer that currently works fine, and you want to delay buying a different brand, you might want to: 1. be using open source drivers (e.g., one of the CUPS PCL drivers, preferably on Linux or BSD) on all possible clients; 2. isolate the printer from direct network access (e.g., don't connect printer's Ethernet or WiFi, and instead run CUPS on a RasPi, which talks to the printer only via USB);…

With the right firewall rules it doesn’t have to be a headache. You can have the printer usable from local networks only and not get internet at all. What does it need it for anyway?

Try blocking it and see. My last HP inkjet would refuse to print off it hadn't phoned home for permission within some timeframe.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#184

Post by idontwantthis »

ph4te wrote: post #62
lchengify wrote: post #23

For those of you who haven't already, I highly recommend just biting the bullet and switching from HP to Brother for your home printing needs. I was a HP customer for decades . I had models going back to perforated paper dot-matrix printers. Finally last year I had a down-and-out fight to get my HP to do a basic task, and I bit the bullet and ordered a Brother at the recommendation of my friend. My mfc-l3750cdw Broth…

I agree on the Brother printers, I’ve only had two Brothers in the past 13 years, and the only reason I upgraded was to go from Black and White Laser, to Color Laser, it was still going strong. The best part about it was you would buy a toner cartridge and when it would tell you it’s getting low, put some electrical tape over the clear hole in the side and it would continue to print for another 1.5k. On top of that I…

> the best part

Is that you can easily circumevent the way this particular brand tries to cheat you.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#185

Post by NoboruWataya »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #85
esperent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just once, I would like to see an AMA by someone who was directly involved in creating a user-hostile feature We don't need an AMA, we already know the answer. Money. The company exists to make money. The fact that it also creates printers is a side effect, not its primary purpose. Once you look at it in this way, there's nothing confusing about user hostile features. They exist to further the primary purpose of th…

The thing is you'd expect companies should also compete to remove such anti-features in order to claim market share from competitors. It's strange how rare that is.

Competition forces companies to optimise for the average/majority consumer preferences. The reality is that most of the user hostile features we talk about here on HN - vendor lock-in, non-repairability, monetisation of data, etc - are not important to most consumers, who value low cost and convenience above all else.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#186

Post by acd »

How does this work with anti competition?

The Sherman Antitrust Act would prohibit printer manufacturers from engaging in anti-competitive practices such as locking out third-party printer cartridges. Under the law, monopolistic or anti-competitive practices are illegal and may be subject to government enforcement.

To quote the sherman act "Every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, is declared to be illegal" (Shermanj Antitrust Act, 15 U.S.C.A. § 1).

Sherman anti trust act: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act

https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#187

Post by sokoloff »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #125
jeromegv wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been with a laser Brothers for 10 years. Switched to a newer one 5 years ago but it’s only because I needed the wifi feature. Works great, no bullshit update software, stays connected to my wifi, never had to fight drivers or anything to get a new Mac connected to it. It just works.

My HL-2140 still runs, but I can’t use it from my work laptop. Their macOS 13 drivers dropped some models.

I run a small Linux print server to expose a generic network printer that ends up printing to an older laser via CUPS. I use Proxmox now to host the print VM, but you can do this on a Raspberry Pi as well.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#188

Post by sokoloff »

hakfoo wrote: post #57
esperent wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just once, I would like to see an AMA by someone who was directly involved in creating a user-hostile feature We don't need an AMA, we already know the answer. Money. The company exists to make money. The fact that it also creates printers is a side effect, not its primary purpose. Once you look at it in this way, there's nothing confusing about user hostile features. They exist to further the primary purpose of th…

I'd argue there's still some interesting math going on there. PC hardware is still very much an industry of "I'll ask the enthusiast kid down the street what to buy"-- the sort of business where souring a small number of power users can blow back with a lot of lost mainstream consumer sales. Do they assume that the "enthusiast kid down the street" is already a lost cause and figure he's never even going to buy a HP p…

I’d wager that 10x more printer decisions are advised by “whoever is wearing a Staples shirt that day” than by an “enthusiast kid I know”.

Regular people don’t want to research a printer; they want printed pages. If that means buying a $100+ OEM cartridge every so often, that’s what it costs and they don’t think much more about it.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#189

Post by Nextgrid »

mydogmuppet wrote: post #67

I recently looked at upgrading my two laser printers to models that were ethernet and wifi. I got burned so badly by Epson and Inkjet I'll never look at that technology again. Got the shock of my life at wifi printer hardware prices. Expensive. I've an ancient, tank like, Dell 5120cn that I bought new from Noahs Ark or was it eBay in 2005ish? Its lifetime page count has only just exceeded its monthly duty cycle. It w…

Wi-Fi connectivity can be trivially addressed in multiple ways:

* Linux computer (Raspberry Pi, router, etc) talking to the printer via USB and sharing it * Linux computer with wireless & Ethernet acting as a network bridge, bridging the Ethernet to the wireless network * Powerline/MoCa/etc adapter - it will be fine as printers don't need a lot of bandwidth

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#190

Post by ornornor »

thombat wrote: post #183
ornornor wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the right firewall rules it doesn’t have to be a headache. You can have the printer usable from local networks only and not get internet at all. What does it need it for anyway?

Try blocking it and see. My last HP inkjet would refuse to print off it hadn't phoned home for permission within some timeframe.

I should add I'm talking about workgroup/enterprise class laser printers.
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