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Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

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Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't that imply that "humans" didn't exist until the term "human" was invented?

That might in fact be true. If we define humans as having a sufficiently sophisticated language, and using a term to reference one's entire species is characteristic of that, then at a stretch we could define the first human being as the child of proto-humans who first invented this linguistic concept.

Point taken :)

What if "human" would be replaced by "ape"?

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#182
post #114

I remember being taught in school about the important Muslim contributions to science, philosophy, and mathematics. It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

Actually the most widespread form of Buddhism in India at the time was Theravada, and they dont worship gods like other religions do. Buddha vandana is not actual worship, because there is no concept of God in Buddhism, truth is the most basic tenet of Buddhism and God cannot be proven to be true. Same applies to Jains no concept of god.

Buddhist Viharas and Mahaviharas (Universities) like Nalanda, Takshila, Vikram shila were places of learning. So no they were not places of worship like Hindus do in their temples.

As a matter of fact more that 70 Buddhist Universities have been found till date.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#183
post #114

I remember being taught in school about the important Muslim contributions to science, philosophy, and mathematics. It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

True, but in turn when we do hear about the Indian contributions, we tend to think they were all Hindus, rather than recognizing the great contributions of the Buddhists at Nalanda. While Buddhism has little presence in India today, that's where it started.

Buddhism is not that different from Hinduism. Both coexisted and debated with each other for centuries until islamic invasions started. Buddhism being a pacifist sect fell first.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#184

Wait, so is this the oldest university then? Because a quick Google says "The Jagiellonian University is a public research university in Kraków, Poland. Founded in 1364 by King Casimir III the Great, it is the oldest university in Poland and the 13th oldest university in continuous operation in the world. It is regarded as Poland's most prestigious academic institution." Ugh... ChatGPT says "The University of Bologna…

Certainly this was a University, even metallurgy lab has been found in Nalanda. Many chinese Scholars use to come to Nalanda and Study, we know this because of their notes and their day to day life in the university. Xuanzang lived in Nalanda for about 15 yrs and studies and he noted a lot of things in his notes. He even explains about Brushing the teeth and morning cleansing rituals. Like how too do bowel and clean the hands. How to use the toilet etc. And when he returned he took bak 10000 Books back with him.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#185
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

> The Ayodhya mosque-temple riots are another facet of this clash. Western commentators glibly say 'Hindus are anti-Muslim'. The issue in India is so much more nuanced than that; there is bad blood on both sides going back a thousand years. Islam cannot escape from these charges: the religion is fundamentally intolerant of non-Abrahamic ones, especially ones with liberal iconography (like Hinduism and Buddhism). Bhak…

Shivaji sacked the city of Surat twice. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty of stuff named after him in and around Surat.

Oh, and the same Shivaji allied with the Muslim Qutub Shah of Golkonda to defend the Deccan homeland from the Northern invaders.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't that imply that "humans" didn't exist until the term "human" was invented?

That might in fact be true. If we define humans as having a sufficiently sophisticated language, and using a term to reference one's entire species is characteristic of that, then at a stretch we could define the first human being as the child of proto-humans who first invented this linguistic concept.

> If we define humans as having a sufficiently sophisticated language

That would be hard to object to.

> and using a term to reference one's entire species is characteristic of that

But this is easy to object to. People can easily do without a term for the species; it's more common to use tribal names, so that a contrast is drawn between different groups of humans (as opposed to between humans and animals, or humans and gods).

Terms for humans as a species come along pretty quickly, but they're not universal.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#187
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The India-Pakistan debacle today is an extension of a nearly millennium-long Hindu-Muslim feud. Not really. A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. Prior to colonial times, there were many individual kingdoms/territories throughout the subcontinent. Other examples of arbitrary borders include the Durand line, and the Wakhan corridor.

> A lot of these arbitrary borders in modern times came about due to actions of former colonial powers. By 1940, Jinnah had come to believe that the Muslims of the subcontinent should have their own state to avoid the possible marginalised status they may gain in an independent Hindu–Muslim state. In that year, the Muslim League, led by Jinnah, passed the Lahore Resolution, demanding a separate nation for Indian Musl…

The Two-nation Theory is a joke and the world's been laughing since 1971.

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for To be blunt: Islamic invaders to the Indian subcontinent were by and large iconoclastic, at best intolerant and at worst genocidal (by forced conversions, marriages, outright murder, etc) of the native Dharmic (read: Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain) population, and burned down, looted, and deconstructed Hindu and Buddhist places of worship to constr…

Actually the most widespread form of Buddhism in India at the time was Theravada, and they dont worship gods like other religions do. Buddha vandana is not actual worship, because there is no concept of God in Buddhism, truth is the most basic tenet of Buddhism and God cannot be proven to be true. Same applies to Jains no concept of god. Buddhist Viharas and Mahaviharas (Universities) like Nalanda, Takshila, Vikram s…

[deleted]

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#189
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a scene in My Big Fat Greek Wedding where the father says that the etymology of all English words can be traced back to Greek[1]. When someone challenges him with the word "Kimono," he pauses for a second, and then concocts a semi-plausible sounding explanation about how the word evolved from a Greek word. A comedy, but I think it does reflect how a lot of people can be so impressed by their own culture that…

True, but let me give you a counterexample. In India ,a lot of 'modern' liberal historians promote hating own culture, history and the roots denigrating Hinduism and its scriptures as origin of all things bad such as casteism. This has surprisingly led a lot of neutral folks more to take a tougher stance of defending own culture even though we do not necessarily practice it to the letter like some groups. Battle of i…

> In India, a lot of 'modern' liberal historians promote hating [their] own culture, history and [roots,] denigrating Hinduism and its scriptures as [the] origin of all things bad

Change "Hinduism" into some other word and you have a pretty general description of liberal historians in most Western countries.

This might be an imperialist perspective, but I'm guessing India imported this cultural tradition from them. :/

Re: Nalanda University flourished for more than seven centuries

#190
post #114

I remember being taught in school about the important Muslim contributions to science, philosophy, and mathematics. It has been interesting to learn over time that much of this was inherited from Indian scientists, philosophers, and mathematicians (and it has been disquieting to learn what “inherited” is a euphemism for).

The Destruction of Nalanda, as chronicled in the Tabaqat-i-Nasiri by the Persian historian Minhaj-i-Siraj written a couple of decades after Bhaktiyar Khilji's death [1]:

"There were two brothers of Farghanah, men of learning, one Nizam-ud-Din, the other Samsam-ud-Din [by name], in the service of Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar; and the author of this book met with Sam-sim-ud-Din at Lakhanawati in the year 641 H., and this account is from him.

These two wise brothers were soldiers among that band of holy warriors when they reached the gateway of the fortress and began the attack, at which time Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar, by the force of his intrepidity, threw himself into the postern of the gateway of the place, and they captured the fortress, and acquired great booty.

The greater number of the inhabitants of that place were Brahmans, and the whole of those Brahmans had their heads shaven; and they were all slain.

There were a great number of books there; and, when all these books came under the observation of the Musalmans, they summoned a number of Hindus that they might give them information respecting the import of those books; but the whole of the Hindus had been killed.

On becoming acquainted [with the contents of those books], it was found that the whole of that fortress and city was a college, and in the Hindu tongue, they call a college Bihar.

When that victory was effected, Muhammad-i-Bakht-yar returned with great booty, and came to the presence of the beneficent Sultan, Kutb-ud-Din, I-bak, and received great honour and distinction."

1. https://archive.org/details/tabaqat-i-nasiri-volume-1/page/5...

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