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What Is Anglish?

anglish.org

181–190 of 363 posts

Re: What Is Anglish?

#181
post #116

My parents were English majors, and they met in Anglo-Saxon class. My father described speaking Anglo-Saxon as being like cursing all the time. Everything is basic words like "shit" and "blood".

Is that because those are the only known words left in our time, or because the original vocabulary was rather limited?

My understanding (and take this with a grain of salt, I don't have sources) is that after the Norman conquest in 1066, the original English language was the lower class language and the Latin/French language of the conquerors became the upper class language. So the words which came to English through French/Latin tended to be considered high class, and the words from older English were considered lower class, rougher, and maybe in some cases more profane. A prime example might be beef vs cow: both referring to the same animal, but the higher class word deriving from French has become the culinary term whereas cow remains the term when speaking of the animal. (That I do have a source for: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef#Etymology)

I think that's why some of the Anglish stuff (or Anglo Saxon class?) might come off as rougher, more basic, simpler, or more profane. It's really interesting (but also really sad) how nearly 1000 years can go by, yet a language can still carry the scars of oppression.

Anyway, that's just my thought, I'm no linguist or historian, so don't take my word for it.

Re: What Is Anglish?

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yorkshuhman here… we say “ta” (tak) for thanks. We also say “cheers” (tschuss) for goodbye. Going a bit deeper, “dale” (daal - Dutch), “beck” (beek - Dutch). Having learnt (not learned) in Amsterdam, it’s very, very like the dialects of the north east of Yorkshuh. So much so, it’s rather a surprise.

cheers means goodbye in Yorkshire? In Lancashire (and elsewhere in the UK) I’ve never heard it mean anything other than “thank you” or the thing you say after clinking glasses the only time I’ve ever heard anything different is from foreigners learning English

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheers “goodbye”

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheerio 1. “Goodbye”, 2. “Hello”

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cheero “A friendly greeting”

Re: What Is Anglish?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples of an English / Scandinavian hybrid? Also, I wonder if such a thing might actually arise in the Scandinavian countries in the future?

Yorkshuhman here… we say “ta” (tak) for thanks. We also say “cheers” (tschuss) for goodbye. Going a bit deeper, “dale” (daal - Dutch), “beck” (beek - Dutch). Having learnt (not learned) in Amsterdam, it’s very, very like the dialects of the north east of Yorkshuh. So much so, it’s rather a surprise.

Are you sure that "cheers" and "tschuss" are etymologically related? I would love that.

Everything I could find points to a Latin cognate, "cara".

Re: What Is Anglish?

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to that, it's interesting how many European languages have heavily borrowed from French in the last 2-3 centuries, especially what I would call "technical" terms. I was watching the subtitled video of a speech made by a Hungarian minister recently and the few words that I could make sense of were all similar to the their French counter-parts (or how I would think a French technical word loaned into Hungarian…

> Related to that, it's interesting how many European languages have heavily borrowed from French in the last 2-3 centuries, especially what I would call "technical" terms. And in other areas, like the arts (from painting and photography to film and the novel), legal, and political terms. That's because France in those past 2-3 centuries was a huge power in Europe and globally, along with the UK). For France, this en…

Yup that's where the term "lingua franca" comes from.

Re: What Is Anglish?

#186

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." --James D. Nicoll

Related to that, it's interesting how many European languages have heavily borrowed from French in the last 2-3 centuries, especially what I would call "technical" terms. I was watching the subtitled video of a speech made by a Hungarian minister recently and the few words that I could make sense of were all similar to the their French counter-parts (or how I would think a French technical word loaned into Hungarian…

Borrow is an odd word to use here "loan word": even odder, just a bit posher (why is it posher? is loan more posh than borrow? really?)

* when do I have to give it back?

* Is it "by permission"

* do I have a library card limit how many I can borrow?

* can I borrow from the 'enfer' shelves? (there's a loan word...)

I'd say "steal" is a better fit. The word isn't coming back. Capice?

Re: What Is Anglish?

#187
> An interesting illustration of this is the way in which the English flower names which were in use till very recently are being ousted by Greek ones, snapdragon becoming antirrhinum, forget-me-not becoming myosotis, etc. It is hard to see any practical reason for this change of fashion: it is probably due to an instinctive turning-away from the more homely word and a vague feeling that the Greek word is scientific.

from Politics and the English Language by George Orwell

Re: What Is Anglish?

#188
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related to that, it's interesting how many European languages have heavily borrowed from French in the last 2-3 centuries, especially what I would call "technical" terms. I was watching the subtitled video of a speech made by a Hungarian minister recently and the few words that I could make sense of were all similar to the their French counter-parts (or how I would think a French technical word loaned into Hungarian…

Borrow is an odd word to use here "loan word": even odder, just a bit posher (why is it posher? is loan more posh than borrow? really?) * when do I have to give it back? * Is it "by permission" * do I have a library card limit how many I can borrow? * can I borrow from the 'enfer' shelves? (there's a loan word...) I'd say "steal" is a better fit. The word isn't coming back. Capice?

If I steal your bicycle, but you still have it, then is it really stolen?

Re: What Is Anglish?

#189

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." --James D. Nicoll

Y'know, I've seen dozens of versions of this quote, but this is the first time I've seen it phrased this way and with proper attribution.

Edit: From wikiquote[1]:

>(This observation is extensively quoted even outside of Usenet, and has appeared in textbooks. It has also been misattributed, in part and in whole, to Booker T. Washington, to Ambrose Bierce, to Terry Pratchett, and, in one case, to the painter James Nicoll (1846–1918).)

[1]https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Nicoll

Re: What Is Anglish?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Related to that, it's interesting how many European languages have heavily borrowed from French in the last 2-3 centuries, especially what I would call "technical" terms. And in other areas, like the arts (from painting and photography to film and the novel), legal, and political terms. That's because France in those past 2-3 centuries was a huge power in Europe and globally, along with the UK). For France, this en…

Yup that's where the term "lingua franca" comes from.

Actually, lingua franca originally refereed to a pidgin bridge language (also called Sabir) in use mostly by sailors and traders in the Mediterranean Basin. While it also borrowed from French, it was mostly based on Italian dialects from what I read. [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca

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