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A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

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Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#181

Post by zamadatix »

kkielhofner wrote: post #166
zamadatix wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "bunch of stuff" is precisely the part where estimation comes in. There is no direct temperature sensor to measure from, the only thing available is the voltage levels on the speaker. As the patent says it's a 2 level estimate: estimate of impedance from voltages -> estimate of temperature from modelling the speaker's physical parametrs as a function of the driving signal and impedance estimate. With patents it's…

Appreciate the clarification - like I said this is well outside my area of expertise and my eyes glazed over pretty quickly in reading but at this point we're borderline in semantics. Exactly. In this case it's a "process". Generally speaking my take is there's almost never entirely new process (or design or anything else) in any "invention" - humans have been at this for hundreds of years and there's almost nothing…

I suppose the non-semantics point of everyone in this chain is: there is nothing about this patent from Apple that explains why using a dynamic temperature/power limit model for the speakers is uncommon in laptops. They are neither the first nor last to get a patent to do this, why then should it be the "real" reason most laptops don't?

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#182

Post by thrdbndndn »

pjc50 wrote: post #170
thrdbndndn wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it for Linux? I thought Macs use MacOS. Again I feel like I'm reading something out of context.

Some people like to run Linux on their Apple hardware because they like the quality of the hardware but don't like Apple's software decisions.

I get that, but I don't get why this is "[a] reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most". Because Macs' speakers sound great even in MacOS.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#183

Post by hcks »

kkielhofner wrote: post #82

Interesting the author says “other manufacturers don’t bother”. Unsurprisingly the real reason is “Apple was granted a patent on this over a decade ago and no one is risking an Apple patent infringement lawsuit over laptop speakers”. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130329898 EDIT: I say granted because that’s how most people understand patents and when they take effect. What really matters on the timeline here…

Lol, does Apple also owns a patent that prevents other manufacturers from making something else than pieces of plastic trash devices ?

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#184

Post by Kiro »

alright_scowl wrote: post #106
Kiro wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The speakers are amazing on my M1. I'm constantly surprised how beefy bass and clean sound they can produce. Don't recall them being so great on my previous MacBooks though.

I wouldn't describe the speakers on the M1 I use as amazing. It's more or less as bad as the speakers of previous laptops I used. I mean, it is a speaker. Good enough for simple sound feedback on most applications. Music on it sounds bad.

Yeah, ok. I presume that by your standard anything less than FLAC on a Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus is unworthy your ears but for us mere mortals the MacBook M1 speakers sound amazing for music as well. It's a massive improvement compared to any other laptop speakers I've heard.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#185

Post by JohnBooty »

eropple wrote: post #171
JohnBooty wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no, depending on our definitions of "big" and "affordable." What's our version of big and affordable? If we say "affordable" is about $500-$1000, all in... For amplification you can get a factory refurbished Denon or similar 5.1 receiver for under $200. This is what I usually recommend because it will give tremendous flexibility over the long haul and honestly, receivers/amplifiers all sound very similar if n…

This is great advice, thanks. :) The DIY route is immediately tempting, and I have a wood shop so I'm not afraid of hacking problems away in a medium-density fiberboard fashion, but I am looking to avoid new projects! I hear you on the bookshelf speakers. My desk speakers are a couple of Edifier S1000DB's (cheap Mackie CR3's before that) and for work stuff that's fine. I never thought about sticking them anywhere els…

Happy to help. Good luck to you! It's a fun hobby, potentially a rabbit hole, but also a fun rabbit hole... and also it doesn't need to be a rabbit hole at all.

If you decide to look into the DIY route, PartsExpress and DIYSoundGroup are two of the most popular sources for affordable flat-pack kits.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#186

Post by eimrine »

The article gives an answer to "louder" question but not "better" one.

As far as I have understood the screen after the text, Mac speakers are not 1-way but at least 2-way (every channel contains a speaker for bass and a speaker for higher frequences). That is the answer about quality of sound, there are no speakers which can play both highs and lows in nice quality.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#187

Post by JohnBooty »

eropple wrote: post #160
toast0 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thrift stores, generally.

I was afraid of that. I can re-box them to look nice, but that would be yet another project...

Most of the fun old speakers from the 1980s and earlier had paper speaker cones, which actually sound(ed) really nice.

However, the paper from the speaker cones and the rubber surrounds have nearly all rotted away at this point. If there are capacitors in the crossovers, those may need replacing too.

So unfortunately resurrecting old vintage speakers (a noble and worthwhile thing!) from thrift stores is often more involved than refinishing the box.

However if you're willing to put in some legwork, scroll through lots of crap, and deal with safety concerns, you can get some nice higher end gear on Craigslist. (A decent seller will understand you need to demo the speakers to make sure they work)

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#188

Post by kkielhofner »

kergonath wrote: post #180
kkielhofner wrote: post #82

Interesting the author says “other manufacturers don’t bother”. Unsurprisingly the real reason is “Apple was granted a patent on this over a decade ago and no one is risking an Apple patent infringement lawsuit over laptop speakers”. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130329898 EDIT: I say granted because that’s how most people understand patents and when they take effect. What really matters on the timeline here…

> Unsurprisingly the real reason is “Apple was granted a patent on this over a decade ago and no one is risking an Apple patent infringement lawsuit over laptop speakers”. It is not exclusive. I cannot believe that there is only one way of doing something like this. They just need to care enough to put some R&D money into this.

Sure, but as I've noted elsewhere if it goes to court it ends up in the hands of a jury. Let's just say that 12 random jurors off the street aren't exactly the HN crowd. In fact, I doubt a single HN user would ever make it on a jury for anything technical unless they lied or deliberately mislead counsel during juror questioning.

"Juror number 7, what is your occupation?"

"I'm a software developer..."

"We move to dismiss this juror".

In this case it could probably be argued for cause due to prejudice which means they can do it all day.

A big part of the calculus here is banking on that.

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#189

Post by NotYourLawyer »

kkielhofner wrote: post #82

Interesting the author says “other manufacturers don’t bother”. Unsurprisingly the real reason is “Apple was granted a patent on this over a decade ago and no one is risking an Apple patent infringement lawsuit over laptop speakers”. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130329898 EDIT: I say granted because that’s how most people understand patents and when they take effect. What really matters on the timeline here…

That’s not a patent. That’s a published version of a patent application.

The patent has actually been granted thought. It’s here: https://patents.google.com/patent/US9131302B2/

Re: A reason why Mac speakers sound better and louder than most

#190

Post by kkielhofner »

zamadatix wrote: post #181
kkielhofner wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the clarification - like I said this is well outside my area of expertise and my eyes glazed over pretty quickly in reading but at this point we're borderline in semantics. Exactly. In this case it's a "process". Generally speaking my take is there's almost never entirely new process (or design or anything else) in any "invention" - humans have been at this for hundreds of years and there's almost nothing…

I suppose the non-semantics point of everyone in this chain is: there is nothing about this patent from Apple that explains why using a dynamic temperature/power limit model for the speakers is uncommon in laptops. They are neither the first nor last to get a patent to do this, why then should it be the "real" reason most laptops don't?

See my other comments about patents in practice. They don't matter until you end up in front of a jury (or settle with a troll, which is a different case). A jury comprised of 12 random people off the street, specifically selected by counsel to be as ignorant as possible on the subject matter at hand (easier to influence).

My original point - this isn't enough of a distinguishing feature to drive sales and revenue for any manufacturer to risk that.

Ok, you sold 1% more laptops because you have good speakers. Then Apple sues you and potentially wins damages on a larger percentage of ALL of your sales of that "infringing" product.

Not worth it, not even close. Not even worth it to try to circumvent and still risk getting sued.

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