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Last Flight Out

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Re: Last Flight Out

#181

Post by Taniwha »

ryandrake wrote: post #85

Whenever I read about how humans are about to colonize Mars, I think about how much logistics it takes to keep even a single base with a handful of people populated on the South Pole. It's like Mars, but with plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure, plentiful (albeit frozen) water, shielded from radiation, low-latency communication with civilization, and is reachable by air and ground vehicles. Given how difficult…

My friend who wintered over claimed that the Pole doesn't have "plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure" - it's high above sea level, the earth's spin reduces the pressure at the poles and if a low pressure weather system comes in people suffer from altitude sickness

https://www.usap.gov/USAPgov/travelAndDeployment/documents/M...

Re: Last Flight Out

#182

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vkou wrote: post #180
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the purpose of Mars is being a lifeboat for some life-ending disaster on Earth, why doesn't that group of people go and build a self-sufficient colony in the Antarctic? There are various reasons for wanting to go to Mars. I don't think most people's primary motivation is species-level survival.

Like what? A research outpost? You have to get into a knife fight with your peers to get a grad student who works for ramen on your lab's funding proposal, you're not going to get the amortized cost of a real lab on Mars approved. For that money, there's a thousand languishing research proposals that we should be looking into instead. There are no economic reasons to go there, either. It's too far away, it's too dang…

> research outpost?

Sure. Tourism, too. Many of us have an exploration urge and instinct, and I can't say it's all rational.

> there's a thousand languishing research proposals that we should be looking into instead

But we're not. People are motivated by passion. I'm not convinced every engineer at SpaceX would be engineering without that mission in their head. I'm also certain the capital being pumped into SpaceX isn't fungible into other research.

Mars, Inc. made a good pitch. It got people excited and involved. I get the sour grapes. We all have pet projects we'd prefer be prioritized instead. But I don't see us fighting over a fixed-sized pie.

Re: Last Flight Out

#183

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lisper wrote: post #175
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, you're talking about extraterrestrial reproduction being intractable. Sure. I have no view on this scientifically. That won't stop people from trying. And I'd assume there's a massive difference between zero g and 0.4g.

Maybe. We have zero data about this.

> have zero data about this

I agree with you as much as I am certain that data have close to no consequence for the people making the decision.

Re: Last Flight Out

#184

Post by hapidjus »

Taniwha wrote: post #181
ryandrake wrote: post #85

Whenever I read about how humans are about to colonize Mars, I think about how much logistics it takes to keep even a single base with a handful of people populated on the South Pole. It's like Mars, but with plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure, plentiful (albeit frozen) water, shielded from radiation, low-latency communication with civilization, and is reachable by air and ground vehicles. Given how difficult…

My friend who wintered over claimed that the Pole doesn't have "plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure" - it's high above sea level, the earth's spin reduces the pressure at the poles and if a low pressure weather system comes in people suffer from altitude sickness https://www.usap.gov/USAPgov/travelAndDeployment/documents/M...

Compared to Mars?

Re: Last Flight Out

#185

Post by gpm »

ryandrake wrote: post #85

Whenever I read about how humans are about to colonize Mars, I think about how much logistics it takes to keep even a single base with a handful of people populated on the South Pole. It's like Mars, but with plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure, plentiful (albeit frozen) water, shielded from radiation, low-latency communication with civilization, and is reachable by air and ground vehicles. Given how difficult…

We've had permanent bases in the south pole for 120 years now. It's not particularly fraught. It's not free, but with a small investment of money we're perfectly able to do it.

We can't colonize it of course, because The Antarctic Treaty forbids territorial claims. Not because we aren't able to build things in the conditions that exist there.

Mars introduces a lot of new challenges, but 120 years of technological development gives us a lot of new tools to address them.

Re: Last Flight Out

#186

Post by hollerith »

ta1243 wrote: post #40

The shower page was interesting, you get 4 minutes of shower time a week https://brr.fyi/posts/showering-at-the-south-pole I'm surprised they can't just melt snow water to run things like showers. Oddly no suggestions on the page about doubling up your shower with someone else to have longer or more frequent showers.

>I'm surprised they can't just melt snow

They do get their water by melting snow and they use waste heat from the generation of electricity to do some or all of the melting.

Apparently, it takes a lot of energy to melt snow.

Re: Last Flight Out

#187

Post by jedberg »

Why do they make the buildings black and white? Both of those blend in with the snow at night (which is 1/2 the year).

Why not make them day glow yellow or something, so they are always visible?

Re: Last Flight Out

#188

Post by rzzzt »

ryandrake wrote: post #85

Whenever I read about how humans are about to colonize Mars, I think about how much logistics it takes to keep even a single base with a handful of people populated on the South Pole. It's like Mars, but with plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure, plentiful (albeit frozen) water, shielded from radiation, low-latency communication with civilization, and is reachable by air and ground vehicles. Given how difficult…

This is a latency vs. throughput / pipeline problem in disguise. You could send a food truck's worth of food every hour towards Mars; the first few months will be peaceful and quiet, but things change when a food truck appears in orbit every hour or so.

Re: Last Flight Out

#189

Post by Retric »

rzzzt wrote: post #188
ryandrake wrote: post #85

Whenever I read about how humans are about to colonize Mars, I think about how much logistics it takes to keep even a single base with a handful of people populated on the South Pole. It's like Mars, but with plentiful oxygen and atmospheric pressure, plentiful (albeit frozen) water, shielded from radiation, low-latency communication with civilization, and is reachable by air and ground vehicles. Given how difficult…

This is a latency vs. throughput / pipeline problem in disguise. You could send a food truck's worth of food every hour towards Mars; the first few months will be peaceful and quiet, but things change when a food truck appears in orbit every hour or so.

That only helps if they need lunch not some specific part or medicine etc.

Also, Earth Mars transfers get dramatically more expensive outside of specific timing and of course actually sending multiple packages gets ruinously expensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohmann_transfer_orbit

Re: Last Flight Out

#190

Post by kortilla »

sph wrote: post #176
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least for most of us it is not pessimistic only as long as one can muse about it while sitting comfortably in a warm place with a full stomach.

You are mistaken. Being at peace with the universe isn't only available to wealthy people. This is a very materialistic view. There is someone out there in abject poverty that is more content than anyone with a warm place and a full stomach. They are hungry, they are cold, yet they are at peace. Likewise, I believe one can reach inner contentment even if fed and clothed. It is not a path accessible only to the poor.

Food and shelter isn’t materialistic. The lack of them have have severe psychological and physiological consequences.
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