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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#181

Post by jmugan »

bilsbie wrote: post #150
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

I'd had bad service lately at a lot of places that require tips.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#182

Post by jacktribe »

bilsbie wrote: post #150
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

We had a no tipping restaurant we used to go to and the service was reliably terrible. Hopefully the rating system will work but I’d say you do need some kind of system. On the other hand Chick-fil-A is able to make their employees act friendly. I wonder how they do it. Finally I do wish you’d accept cash just for people that want to preserve their privacy.

Cash will tie up an additional employee behind the counter. One of the reasons we are able to not accept tips and pay fair wages instead, is because we don't need a person at the register.

And while you can use that person for other tasks when there is no one in line, they do need to glove up each time they may handle a food item.

Also, in LA cash is a safety issue if you plan on staying open late when traffic is low.

To facilitate anonymous payments, we will accept crypto soon.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#183

Post by freitasm »

"“Tipping is about making sure the people who are performing that service for you are getting paid what they’re owed,” said Schenker, who’s been working in the service industry for roughly 18 years."

Yes, this would be what some call "wages".

It's a terrible system. People are not valued by their employers. Employers distance themselves from employees.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#184

Post by mindslight »

notch656c wrote: post #72
bscphil wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I delivered food A "token amount" is pretty reasonable if you take tipping at face value, no? It's supposed to be a reward for good service. Waitstaff engage with you many times over the course of about an hour, and every person at a table receives service. It's fairly reasonable in this case to tip in proportion to the total bill. On the contrary, it's roughly the same amount of work for a delivery driver to…

See my below post. The issue is the delivery driver has to pick up the order from a full service restaurant much of the time. The full service restaurant workers will blackball the delivery driver if he doesn't tip them, and that happens proportionally to the cost of the food. After 2-3 times the delivery driver not tipping the restaraunt at the food he's picking up, he will be waiting forever until his customers can…

> The full service restaurant workers will blackball the delivery driver if he doesn't tip them

Have things seriously gotten this bad, that restaurant workers are shaking down delivery drivers for extra cash? So much for solidarity with fellow workers.

Tips are for service, and selling food is not a service. At a restaurant, tips are for the waitstaff that brings your food and cleans up after you. Everything else is people hustling for extra cash. And yes we all like extra cash, but that doesn't make one entitled to it by putting a cup on the counter.

(Delivery drivers bringing food to your house, and drinks at a bar are two separate categories of service where tipping is legitimately expected. Although now that I think about it, maybe that second category was just the beginning of people getting suckered).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#185

Post by friend_and_foe »

The problem is payment terminals have it in the software and most places don't turn it off because "why not?"

I have a set of rules, I will not tip, regardless the social consequences, if a drink was not poured, food was not delivered to my door, my hair wasn't cut, a hostess didn't seat me and a waiter didn't come around and hand me a menu and ask me what I want, or someone didn't roller skate to my car. And then, the tip starts at 15%, it goes up for above and beyond service and goes down for sub par service. Everywhere else I proudly push no.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#186

Post by moomoo11 »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #178
moomoo11 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've faced that after moving to SF. Stopped eating out unless its a actually special high end place or something. I was in a rush and didn't put a tip, I found a hair in my fried rice and the tofu was not fully cooked. I'd ordered from that place a couple times before and its like $22 with tip for just Thai red curry with rice.. The prices are insane. Even if I made 10x what I make, I wouldn't eat out unless its real…

Here's a tip: report this to the department of public health!

Sure, but this is an isolated incident. I don't want to attribute to malice what could have been a total accident that day, maybe the kitchen was just busy. However, it was coincidental that it happened at a time when I didn't tip.

I'll keep that in mind for next time though if it ever happens again! Now I kind of want to do a social experiment.. go to a restaurant like 4-5 times and then don't tip once to see what happens. If its really true service is affected that way, then its a broader problem.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#187

Post by jmugan »

JimtheCoder wrote: post #160
Insanity wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European living in Canada, the tipping culture took some time to get used to. It's such a stupid/bad system.

Am Canadian, can confirm... I do wish there was a way to tip the drivers who deliver my Amazon Prime stuff, though. I don't want to tip someone who presses a few buttons on a screen to take my food order, that they usually mess up and sometimes add on a free side of bad attitude. I would like an easy way to tip the guy who is trudging through the snow to deliver my 2KG jar of peanut butter at 9:30pm in January. I lik…

Wouldn't that just continue to expand a bad practice? If drivers got tips, Amazon would lower their wages, and we'd just have another domain where we have to make extra decisions.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#188

Post by acdha »

jjav wrote: post #153
zzzeek wrote: post #71

I can't believe these comments, what is wrong with you people? if you are a highly paid technology worker, when you go to service establishments where people are working hourly and are desperate to work 40-50 hour weeks just to pay their rent and feed their kids, you *tip*. *generously*. the US has an insanely out of control income inequality issue that is very intractible and structural. If you are so fortunate as t…

> you tip . generously No, absolutely not, that is not the correct solution to the very real problem of underpaid staff. Instead I want laws to ban tipping and force jobs to pay a reasonable living wage at a minimum. Yes the product will cost more in restaurants but so be it, it's the honest way to do it.

Push for those laws. Patronize restaurants which pay well.

Until that’s universal, tip generously anywhere you aren’t certain pays their works great wages. Good intentions don’t help anyone make rent.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#189

Post by barbazoo »

tptacek wrote: post #18
barbazoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not explicit at all if it's optional though is it?

I don't see what optionality has to do with anything.

> tipping is in general a system that shifts some of the employer's costs to customers explicitly

it's not explicit because no one knows what the total cost is that's being shifted to the consumer and how much of that is recouped by tipping.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#190

Post by orangea »

DrThunder wrote: post #122
tkuraku wrote: post #38

I think tipping should be outlawed. The price should be the price. Workers should not be subject to inconsistent pay for the same amount of work. In addition it gets rid of any bias in wages (more attractive people or people of different ethnicities might get higher tips for the same work).

I don't. For sit down restaurants, or many service oriented jobs it makes for a better customer experience. I agree for counter service it where they want tips BEFORE the service experience it makes no sense. You ought to try sitting down in a restaurant in the EU. They do the bare minimum to serve you. Tying a possible bonus to the way you act in customer service facing role has a lot of benefits. "In addition it ge…

> Do you think it's somehow more altruistic to provide subjectively uglier individuals the same wage? Bias based on attractiveness is no worse than bias based on personality or any other trait. Your point is moot anyway, in a capitalistic society people can just choose to visit another business where the staff has the traits they desire.

Your point seems to be that there is no inherent moral good in distributing resources equally among people as opposed to allowing inequality to naturally emerge and/or optimizing for total value across all people. I don't necessarily disagree: it is hard to argue from first principles that each individual should be given the same weight, as opposed to any other arbitrary system like giving each family the same weight, or taking intelligence into account. However, it is also wrong to pretend that there isn't significant precedent in society for assigning each individual equal moral weight — for example, by allowing everyone an equal vote in elections, which has clearly been a useful practice. And I consider it obvious that "Bias based on attractiveness is no worse than bias based on personality or any other trait" isn't something that would be widely agreed upon.

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