Live data from Hacker News

The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

bfi.uchicago.edu

181–190 of 426 posts

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#181
post #34

The pay and the working conditions are miserable, plus the society doesn't value hard work anymore

"Society doesn't ___ anymore" statements are nearly universally bullshit.

that explains the current situation, it's all bullshit :clown_face:

https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/construction-work...

https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/web-developer/sal...

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#183
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pipes are all copper, and the hot water contains a non trivial amount of lead (from the solder used to join the pipes). I had it tested - around 20 ppb. We don't drink or cook with the hot water, but in theory if the plumbing was PEX we could.

What year was your house built? I really hope this is not a risk on things built after 2000 (or 1980?)

From 1986-2011 the EPA/congress defined "lead free" pipes as containing no more than 8% lead.

In 1996, they banned plumbing that is not "lead free" from being sold.

In 2011, the "lead free" definition was strengthened to a weighted average of 0.25%.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#184
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of inferior material?

I can: - Vinyl windows compared to old growth wood windows from 100 years ago. - Vinyl siding compared to cedar shakes. - Extremely poor wood quality in the lower end 2x4 and 2x6 lumber. - Sheathing that's essentially cardboard in really cheap builds. - Flooring is sad today in cheap to moderate homes. Thing is there were really badly built homes 100 years ago and they just aren't standing any longer. We do get a but…

Vinyl windows/sealed windows are 400% better. Old windows suck.

Cedar shakes are a fire hazard, and most people use cement board rather than vinyl.

You can't have everyone use virgin forest wood. And with that said especially in non load bearing walls why use your best wood, it's just a waste. You get far more strength by use of modern fastners and straps.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#185
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to take your side on this. By virtue of being undocumented, they should be boosting the perceived productivity, not dampening it. If I was to steelman the idea, though; I would guess that removing incentives in the form of higher pay will lower the contributions of everyone involved?

If your labor hours are billable why on Earth should undocumented in this context mean unaccounted for?

I think I understand the question. The disagreement seems to be what "undocumented worker" here means.

If you think it means the worker is on the books, but is not a citizen, then you get to your question. It should be roughly the same.

If you think it means that the worker was off the books, regardless of citizenship, then you arrive at the other.

My consideration is if I am a cleaner and get my child to help out on a few jobs, my child will not be a documented worker and it will be a transparent boost to my productivity. Indeed, many subcontractors and migrant workers will use family as a cheap way to boost productivity so that they can take more jobs.

I grant that construction may land on the other interpretation. There are usually more rules for that kind of work. (Though, in rural areas? Not sure.)

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#186

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

What’s wild is that the entire concept, as we know it, of “undocumented workers” only existed for the past ~22 years.

You think that the concept of unauthorized workers coming across the border has only existed since the year 2000?

I think you're confusing the term "undocumented" or "undocumented worker" with the underlying concept that's referenced by the terms. The concept has long been in in the public spotlight using different terms ("illegal" or "illegal alien").

Here's some statements from Gerald Ford on the same concept, using the old lingo: https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/library/document/0110/1181...

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#187
post #99

In this time-period there has been a large-scale introduction of undocumented workers into the construction labor force. They are a quarter of some construction labor categories. Perhaps using undocumented subcontractors may play a role in lower productivity growth (cheap, unstable, and relatively unskilled labor) or maybe just distorting the statistics. https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/...

I think this is one of the major impacts. My experience (family in construction) is that day labor / undocumented workers often don't have construction skills, and so have to be trained on the job, and each crew has mostly new/unskilled folks with a few skilled folks to guide them and keep them on track. Over time, these folks become skilled, and generally end up running crews. It's very commonplace to find the more…

How is the labor cost accounting done in businesses that rely on such labor? How does the risk of government sanctions to the business play out?

I'm interested where the blind-eyes are built in.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#188
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PEX is great. I highly recommend keeping some shark bites and spare pieces of PEX around, as it's easy to do repairs on your own if you have an issue.

From what I understand, while it is up to code, pro's don't put sharkbites in walls. I've gone with ss crimps instead of copper rings too. Mostly cause I live near the ocean and the ss crimps just seem easier to use. 200' of blue/red sharkbite brand pex b tubing is only about $70 on amazon right now, amazing.

I should have been more clear. I wouldn't use a sharkbite for a permanent fix, but being able to patch something until you can either do a permanent fix or get a plumber out is a big win. I even keep PVC glue and some collars/caps for the same reason.

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>undocumented workers [are responsible for the productivity drop] I am confused by this assertion. If they are undocumented, wouldn't they be excluded in the stats? And if they aren't included in the stats, shouldn't we expect an artificial increase in worker productivity? If there is a 4:1 undocumented to documented ratio, then that 1 documented person will get "credit" for the work of 5 people! Even if 4 of those p…

"Undocumented" is the current preferred euphemism for "illegal immigrant".

"Illegal immigrant" is a dysphemism for "cheap labor".

Re: The strange and awful path of productivity in the US construction sector

#190
post #48
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure this is the right answer and calling this "worker productivity" seems a bit harsh. A "Pretty Good House" (book that was on the front page last week) includes insulation above and below the foundation slab, vapour barriers, double studs to break thermal bridges, complex window installation (again thermal bridges), air exchangers and heat pumps with ducts (or mini-splits). New constructions (for cold zone),…

Book may have been on the front page last week but I assure you very very few people in the US have insulation above and below their foundations or incredibly air tight houses.

I rather think our house is pretty optimal for this given where we live. Slab on grade in socal, where AC is more of a concern than heating.
Post reply on HN