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The Quest for a Dumber Phone

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Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#181

Post by andrew-dc »

andrew-dc wrote: post #69

Having not used a smart phone for ~5 years now, I can say that it is totally a workable solution - however, there are, of course trade-offs, and several persistent annoyances. Rather than get into a list, I will present the one thing that I find the most frustrating: Our society expects you to have and use a smart phone for nearly everything. This might be less annoying if it meant only new functions or supplemented…

Oh, bonus annoyance for Parents:

Let's say you have kids and you want to use any of the family settings (e.g. Screen Time) Apple, Google, etc provide for an iPad or Chromebook: All app based.

I happen to use an old iPad just as an admin panel for these cases, but the almost complete lack of any desktop or web interface is stupidly depressing.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#182

Post by exolymph »

4ggr0 wrote: post #154
pigsty wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN attracts people who have interest in tech or simply came across a news aggregator that isn’t full of political spam and endless dread.

Yeah sure, but I'd say that 95%+ of things posted and discussed here require some form of understanding you only get when working in IT yourself or doing it as a hobby. I don't want to sound condescending but I doubt that HN would be interesting for the average brush cutter or just for anyone not being familiar with IT, that's why I asked :D

> I'd say that 95%+ of things posted and discussed here require some form of understanding you only get when working in IT yourself or doing it as a hobby.

This is just incorrect IMO. I work in marketing, I'm tech-savvy for a normal person but by no means an IT enthusiast, and there are plenty of business, history, economics, science, culture, etc. links and discussions on HN.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#183

Post by simondotau »

ekianjo wrote: post #169
simondotau wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither should a bank account, or a car, or weather-appropriate clothes, but they can be pretty damn handy.

Bad analogies are bad analogies. You can still have two systems in parallel instead of requiring a single tool to do the job.

Bad arguments are bad arguments.

Cash and bank accounts are two systems in parallel. Cars and public transport (or bicycles, or walking) are systems in parallel. Good clothing and poor clothing are systems in parallel.

A physical driver license and a digital driver license are systems in parallel. Banking/services on a mobile phone and visiting a physical store are systems in parallel.

Where is the bad analogy?

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#184

Post by fleddr »

Version467 wrote: post #157
fleddr wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely a key insight: every attempt to be less addicted to your smartphone will fail if you do not fill up that void of newly available time with something more productive, healthy, etc. The good news is that you don't need to set a very high bar for a better use of this free time. Read a book. Go on a small walk around the block. Take care of your garden, if you have one. Do simple chores. Do nothing at all. Alm…

I only recently rediscovered that doing nothing is a perfectly fine activity and that it's okay to be bored. That might sound obvious and borderline stupid, but it really feels like I had forgotten that for a while. This insight made cutting down my smartphone time dramatically easier and much more successful. Because while I had strategies to replace bigger chunks of social media consumption with reading books, goin…

Very well put and couldn't agree more. Boredom is as important as deep sleep for recovery.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#185

Post by thfuran »

fsflover wrote: post #108
thfuran wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd rather have something in between a laptop and a smartphone that is designed to be comfortable for carrying around in a small bag or pocket, but that also has a physical keyboard and is designed to be used productively for programming or writing for example. Something like what? A small laptop is little more than a display attached to a thin keyboard. I'm not sure how you'd get something much smaller while retain…

Librem 5 phone runs desktop Linux, and you can connect any bluetooth or usb keyboard to it thus turning it into a laptop for programming.

A low res five inch screen is about as suitable for work as a crt is for travel.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#186

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

petodo wrote: post #165
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I don't automatically disagree, but the same argument is put forth for excessive food, drink, drugs intake and self-control is, by itself, not a real answer, but a diversion of sorts typically given by the item's manufacturer/seller. As in, it is both true, but also misleading -- especially so in the case of cellphones. By their very design these days, smart phones are created with a singular goal of keeping the…

> the same argument is put forth for excessive food, drink, drugs intake and self-control is, by itself, not a real answer, but a diversion of sorts typically given by the item's manufacturer/seller. But it is a real answer. Solution to being fat is not some miracle pill or miracle diet, but lower the food/calories consumption and more exercise/movement (which is both again self control), simple as that. Seems like p…

Um. It is an answer and it is even a convincing one, but it is not the answer.

Yes in general. However, there are studies[1] suggesting that it is not exactly one size fit all in the sense that some bodies may defend their accumulated energy in the form of fat. In other words, there is a genetic component that can't be so easily dismissed with 'just eat less'.

I am not sure I would phrase it quite so bluntly. You do recognize that it is something of a vicious cycle? An obese man is a lot more unlikely to start running around the block precisely, because of all that extra weight weighing him down. It is often a string of bad decisions, but it sounds overly dismissive.

I mean, in a sense we can always go on a starvation diet, but is more likely to result in a yoyo effect. Hardly a long term solution.

Not really. I do mean both especially now that Google more tightly tries to run its ecosystem. Unless you are trying to convince that their flagship is not designed that you stare at it all the time. And if you look at Samsung ecosystem ( and its flagship ) the distinction you suggests slowly starts to lose its meaning.

You are right. At the end of the day, the tool itself is just that. However, if the tool in question liberally dispenses social equivalent of nudges, pushes, validation, belonging to a 'community' and effectively serves as heroine to attention starved addict, the tool is an addiction dispenser. It has to be recognized as such. Like.. I have no problem with drugs.. but I can't just will oxi addiction away. Social addiction is notably different, but you underappreciate its impact, because it is a mental addiction and not physical. I posit that the truly addictive things are more mental in nature.

Also true that phones are just tools; hardware is largely useless without software. Apple, Google, Samsung all provide various time wasters.

I am not sure Google, Samsung or Apple would agree ( openly that is ). To borrow your example, Apple only introduced limits on screentime after demands from various interested groups[2]. I don't even want to think what Google does.

It is a fascinating IF clause. I am paraphrasing while trying to retain the same meaning: "If I want to do something, my action is wrong". Could you elaborate? I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I do not want to assume the meaning you wanted to convey.

FWIW, I blame them as well.

[1]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/ [2]https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/07/two-large-apple-shareholde...

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#187

Post by pigsty »

4ggr0 wrote: post #175
selfhoster11 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that a brush cutter is not familiar with IT or technological topics? People's backstory can be more complicated than most people expect.

> Why do you assume that a brush cutter is not familiar with IT or technological topics? It's definitely not usual and it made me curious. Most of the people I meet who talk and understand IT also work in IT, or at least did once in their life. I've never met a blue-collar worker who seems to understand IT. That doesn't mean that I'm saying that blue-collar workers are dumb or can't ever understand IT, the venn diagr…

I think you might also be looking at tech with a slightly narrower view. Silicon Valley Web 3.0 startups are one section of tech, but you’ll also see stories about John Deere and the right to fix farm equipment, optimizing motors, flood control, and whatever else on HN. Tech and hacking is a pretty wide field and every economic sector has its own definition of what constitutes “tech”. For some it’s optimizing excel spreadsheets, for some it’s crypto trading, and for some it’s about building better branch cutters.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#188

Post by 4ggr0 »

pigsty wrote: post #187
4ggr0 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you assume that a brush cutter is not familiar with IT or technological topics? It's definitely not usual and it made me curious. Most of the people I meet who talk and understand IT also work in IT, or at least did once in their life. I've never met a blue-collar worker who seems to understand IT. That doesn't mean that I'm saying that blue-collar workers are dumb or can't ever understand IT, the venn diagr…

I think you might also be looking at tech with a slightly narrower view. Silicon Valley Web 3.0 startups are one section of tech, but you’ll also see stories about John Deere and the right to fix farm equipment, optimizing motors, flood control, and whatever else on HN. Tech and hacking is a pretty wide field and every economic sector has its own definition of what constitutes “tech”. For some it’s optimizing excel s…

I live in a small european country with the same amount of people living here as in New York City. The city I live in has 60k people. Maybe that makes it a bit easier for y'all to understand.

I really don't get why now a couple of people have told me that I'm wrong. I'm talking about my own, real-life experience, not some kind of mental, non-existing argument.

I am not saying that IT can't be a diverse field and that only IT people can know about IT - I'm saying that in MY life, I have never met someone who knows IT who doesn't also actually work in IT or did at some point in their life. So I was curious why an IT person started to work as a brush cutter, or how they got into IT etc.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#189

Post by pigsty »

4ggr0 wrote: post #188
pigsty wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might also be looking at tech with a slightly narrower view. Silicon Valley Web 3.0 startups are one section of tech, but you’ll also see stories about John Deere and the right to fix farm equipment, optimizing motors, flood control, and whatever else on HN. Tech and hacking is a pretty wide field and every economic sector has its own definition of what constitutes “tech”. For some it’s optimizing excel s…

I live in a small european country with the same amount of people living here as in New York City. The city I live in has 60k people. Maybe that makes it a bit easier for y'all to understand. I really don't get why now a couple of people have told me that I'm wrong. I'm talking about my own, real-life experience, not some kind of mental, non-existing argument. I am not saying that IT can't be a diverse field and that…

The point everyone is making is this is not an IT forum. It’s tech (which includes machinery) and business. You can avoid IT entirely and still work a tech job. I’d dare say the vast majority of tech jobs are in no way similar to IT.

Re: The Quest for a Dumber Phone

#190

Post by Alcor »

themadturk wrote: post #166
trekkie1024 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try a smartwatch with cellular connectivity?

Apple Watches still need an iPhone mothership, which of course you can leave in a drawer at home.

While true that an iPhone is still needed somewhere in the process, Apple now lets you set up an Apple Watch for family members that don't have an iPhone.

Set up Apple Watch for a family member - https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211768

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