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Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

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Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#181

Post by dragontamer »

root_axis wrote: post #74
dragontamer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Welcome to the internet, the same thing could be said about every web forum since the 90s. Not USENET, not IRC. There's other systems, older than Reddit, that have other rules.

Ah yes, usenet and irc, two platforms where moderators never ban people for capricious reasons.

I'm less interested in bad moderators per se, as much as I am more concerned about "permanently owning a major, important name on Reddit".

On IRC, if the channel goes dead, the channel name is back up for grabs. This means that the admins can kick everyone out of a room and "Reset the ownership" of a name, if necessary. (Ex: #Ubuntu suffers from a glitch and gets taken over by griefers. Admins come in, kick everyone off, and gives official #Ubuntu devs control of the channel again).

Reddit can ban redditors who are poor behaving (even moderators). But the name of the channel remains in their control. The subreddit name can be lost forever. I don't think its a good system of name management.

---------

USENET was way more ad-hoc. The alt.* distribution lists were fully unmoderated and fully ad-hoc from what I remember. I don't think it was even possible to ban anyone, and as such, a lot of those alt.* channels became filled with spam, porn, and other unfavorable material.

The comp.* moderated lists were done better. I don't fully recall the administrative structure. But I know it wasn't done like how Reddit did things.

Reddit's decisions can be discussed in light of its competitors. Be it Discord (today), or USENET / IRC (from the past).

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#182

Post by richbell »

traverseda wrote: post #113
richbell wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem this is that historically a person will create a subreddit, add other moderators, and then vanish. The other moderators will build up the community and culture of the subreddit, and then one day years down the road the top moderator returns and decides they want to make unilateral changes that the actual moderators are powerless to contest.

I'd say that's a feature, not a bug. I've done it. In my particular case shortly after the beginning of covid some mods wanted to ban all discussion of hobbyist medical 3D printing, things like 3D printed masks and even those Prusa face shields. I didn't think that we had the expertise to be the judges of truth in that area (it was during those few weeks where the governmentwas saying "don't use masks", and these mod…

> I'd say that's a feature, not a bug. I've done it.

Arguably, what right do you have to decide the direction of a subreddit you have never actually contributed to? It's like an absentee parent returning after a decade and immediately trying to enact major changes in your life because "I'm your father".

There have been countless controversies of useless "head mods" returning and doing just that. WSB comes to mind, but there have been many worse ones.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbetsOGs/comments/vd4gn7/w...

(I am not saying that's applicable for you specifically, as given your example it sounds like you actually had some level of care and activity.)

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#183

Post by watwut »

ilaksh wrote: post #121
tazjin wrote: post #3

Reddit's weird setup where essentially random people who were first "own" entire categories (= subreddits) of discussion is totally absurd.

I was a moderator for r/robots for awhile. I even spent a few hundred dollars hiring an artist to create a theme. I begged them to help me pin down what the subreddit was about since the submissions were all over the place, and some people seemed to think it was for a certain type of robot content and others a different type. Most ignored the question. I tried to share articles and videos of actual leading edge robot…

With art specifically, people and especially non artists don't judge it on art-school kind of criteria. They don't care that someone somewhere else did something similar. They don't care about formal quality.

They care about how it makes them feel.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#184

Post by danogentili »

AlexandrB wrote: post #156
Auracle wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we’re back to crude cave paintings. Tear down all the statues and burn the museums.

> Tear down all the statues and burn the museums. No need. Soon there will be so much AI generated "art" that human-made art will largely be pushed out of popular consciousness.

Looking at recent online discussion, this is an easy conclusion to come to, but it's really just a huge bubble.

People won't stop creating just because there's a cheaper alternative.

The analogy with manual labor automation simply doesn't hold, first because people actually like creating stuff, but perhaps most importantly because there is no supply problem to solve.

Taking the analogy with automation in the car industry, automation drastically lowered prices, making each individual copy of a product accessible to anyone.

It costs virtually 0$ to copy a movie, a picture, a song and display it on every device on the planet.

The cost of creating a audiovisual product is amortized across all users, dividing the costs by the number of users instead of multiplying it.

Sure, one day we may have models capable of generating full 3d animated movies from just a prompt, paying for just the electricity used to run the GPUs, but how much cheaper can you get compared to 9$/month to compete with a traditional streaming subscription with human-made content?

Assuming the world even comes to the point where AI streaming services contain virtually infinite amounts of meaningless autogenerated content, and assuming people actually like that content (which may be the case for the chunk of people already watching statistics-driven garbage on Netflix), nothing will stop creatives fired from previously-human studios from creating their own studios, producing hand-crafted, human works at the same price as always (9$/month).

An analogy can be made with handcrafted cars like Lamborghinis may cost millions, with the difference that with audiovisual content, a work can be shared by (and the price amortized by) billions.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#185

Post by MrNeon »

xwdv wrote: post #124

I’m glad. If your “art” can be mistaken for AI art, it’s likely just content, not art. The example picture is meaningless, just technical work. Makes no sense upon scrutiny. True art is something that can’t be replicated by AI. You will have no doubt once you see it. It still exists even with the proliferation of AI art. It’s like the difference between a random picture and a meme. The meme looks like a picture, but…

I looked at the image and it feels like art in the terms that you put it.

What now. Is my inner experience of art not valid? How do we reconcile this?

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#186

Post by kitsunesoba »

tjpnz wrote: post #64

This is /r/art by the way and based on the blurb and about section it seems less about art and more about fulfilling the deranged power fantasies of its moderators. What an unfriendly place. Nice to hear the artist has gotten a more positive response in /r/drawing.

I'm not too surprised, /r/art has been famous for completely arbitrary rules for years by now.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#187

Post by flumpcakes »

ok123456 wrote: post #168
purpleblue wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of reddit is that you can create your own subreddit with your own mods and have the discourse that you want. You're not held to just sticking with the subreddits that are given to you.

It can be 'sponsored' as the parent noted. (By whom? Why?)

Not only sponsored - but also automatically added to your list of subscribed sub-reddits! I only saw the "sponsored" posts when I went out of my way to unsub from this new subreddit I was unceremoniously subscribed too.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#188

Post by bitshiftfaced »

andsoitis wrote: post #12
tazjin wrote: post #3

Reddit's weird setup where essentially random people who were first "own" entire categories (= subreddits) of discussion is totally absurd.

What do you think would be a better model? I have a hard time imagining one. It doesn't seem all that different to me than whoever is first to claim a company name, a domain name, or when we go back further in time, land.

I wonder if it's possible to replace mods completely with a bridging algorithm such as the one used for Community Notes. The algorithm is very clever in that, so far, there doesn't seem to be a way to game it. It aligns user incentive with a goal of quality. As a result, it tends to make high quality decisions.

It might be possible to use this method to crowdsource things like creating subreddit rules and removing comments that break those rules.

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#189

Post by oigursh »

tjpnz wrote: post #64

This is /r/art by the way and based on the blurb and about section it seems less about art and more about fulfilling the deranged power fantasies of its moderators. What an unfriendly place. Nice to hear the artist has gotten a more positive response in /r/drawing.

/r/art mods are swivel-eyed loons

Re: Artist banned, told to “find a different style”- AI-made art

#190

Post by mring33621 »

jknoepfler wrote: post #161
vikingerik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do Reddit moderators do their work? They are paid in power. They get to decide what viewpoints are seen or not by others. That is a very compelling wage. And of course they all think they're doing a service by advancing their ideology because of course their ideology is the right one.

That's an extremely reductive claim. Can you really not think of more mundane reasons someone might find themselves moderating reddit? It's hard to imagine "ideology" being relevant to the vast majority of reddit... Do you really think the moderators of ELI5 or PeopleFuckingDying or some obscure porn reddit or whatever are primarily concerned with "ideology"? I used to help moderate a poker forum. I was a professiona…

"keep discussions constructive and topical."

is subjective

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