BundesMessenger, a secure messenger for Germany’s public administration

Post by dang » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 9:38 PM UTC

Lanz wrote: post #108

foepys wrote: post #38

Germany was quite advanced when it came to technology but then the drive to make more of it somehow stopped. It has always been incredibly sad to me that the German ID card (Personalausweis) has an RFID chip inside with trust zones, certificates, authorization features, and much more and just never had been used. Like at all except for getting cigarettes at vending machines. 12 years after the first RFID Personalausw…

It's almost as if the spirit of the people was broken as Germany drifted more and more leftward.

Post by arrrg » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

catiopatio wrote: post #149

arrrg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany at least there are several measures in place to make this slippery slope a fallacy (as it usually is) and not realistic. You can pick whether you want to have an ID card or a passport or both. You are not required to carry your ID card with you. In general the actually existing surveillance of mobile phones that were in a certain area at a certain time is much more worrisome to me.

How does that prevent anything? An empty promise today is easily broken tomorrow. The best defense-in-depth against future abuse is not building the abusable system in the first place. Adoption might start as a voluntary choice, but pervasive integration with other technology and services result in it becoming effectively mandatory. > In general the actually existing surveillance of mobile phones that were in a certa…

Post by lakomen » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #165

kune wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually use my German ID card to communicate with the Elster service of the German tax offices. My old USB signing stick would need to be replaced next year, but using my ID card was the cheaper option.

You can also generate a certificate. Registering it requires receiving a letter by snail mail and it expires every X years (5 maybe?), but otherwise it's just like your certificate for your server you use to SSH in.

Post by riversflow » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:07 PM UTC

heywherelogingo wrote: post #132

strbean wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is quite a lot of slipper slope going on here. > centrally managed, and cryptographically-backed state identification cards, complete with RFID. Does not necessitate: > universally mandated > No access to anything > felony to do so intentionally > Your 2FA and disk encryption is mandatorily tied to your ID card All the latter things are awful, but we can have the first thing without any of the latter things.

Yet. It's not slippery slope, it's looking ahead. Is the ice on the lake cracked? No. Therefore there is no chance of it cracking? Setup, then execute, not necessarily immediately.

Post by EMIRELADERO » Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

stevehawk wrote: post #117

PaulHoule wrote: post #56

I think messaging is an area where Europe could have an impact. The basic problem with messaging and voice/video comm applications is that clients are not interoperable. It is easy to think that: we've had CUSeeMe, IRC, ICU, AOL Instant Messenger, Tivejo, MSN Messenger, I think more than 10 kinds of Google Chat, Facebook Messenger, Skype, Zoom, Paltalk, Yahoo Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Go2Meeting, Discord, WhatsApp…

The impact is not likely to be positive. Nearly every government in Europe will want access to the comms happening, particularly if it's within their borders or with their citizens. Europe is not likely to introduce an end-user-to-end-user encryption. It will be encrypted from end user to the government to the next end user.