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New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

bbc.com

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Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#181

Post by stubish »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #165
slj wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a resident of Melbourne, in the state of Victoria, which had the longest pandemic lockdown in the world AFAIK. It certainly was at the time the lockdown ended, at least. Victoria recently had an election wherein the government which was responsible for implementing the lockdown was re-elected. Notably, the state government’s pandemic response was dictated by facts, indeed the chief health officer responsible for…

> despite the re-election being a clear sign that the will of the people is that they want a government led by (or at least informed by) experts who know what they’re doing. I would heavily challenge this just because the opposition is utterly incompetent in Victoria. I am as against the lockdowns as they come and think they border on criminal as an action taken by the state against citizens. A disgusting violation o…

There seemed to be avenues open for people to register their displeasure at Labor, via preferential voting. Two minor parties 'Angry Victorians' and 'Sack Dan Andrews' party were obvious targets to put before Labor, along with the usual alternatives such as Green, Reason, Legalize Cannabis (although those risked electing someone instead of a Labor candidate). Yet the Labor vote was overwhelming. It very much seems that there was only a vocal minority against the lockdown policies. The displeasure with Labor seemed more about their environmental policies, with the Greens and Legalize Cannabis taking left wing votes away from Labor.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#182

Post by worik »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #121
worik wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crime in NZ post covid has been pretty high Crime in NZ has been trending downwards for over a decade. There has been an increase in certain types of crime, so if cherry picking, increasing crime can be made a thing. Not true tho. > . A dairy worker was stabbed to death a few weeks ago by people... They stole the cash register, not the cigarettes. > Also, the price of groceries in NZ is extortionate Yes. Far too hi…

Crime in NZ has been trending downwards for over a decade. Reported crime does not equal actual crime. With police response time in the hours range, and a lack of prosecution, people increasingly don't bother reporting crime at all. I remember once the emergency operator pretty much said "look it's going to take a couple of hours, do you really want to bother going through with this?". This was in a city about 2km fr…

> Reported crime does not equal actual crime. With police response time in the hours range, and a lack of prosecution, people increasingly don't bother reporting crime at all.

Yes.

There is much more reporting now. Many domestic assaults for example.

Albeit an anecdote you have....

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#183

Post by worik »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #133
daemoens wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what was the crime they didn't want to go through with?

Palmerston North. Lived in Auckland in 2014 and again in 2020. The difference was massive. Suddenly every convenience store had plastic barriers protecting the workers from stabbing. Places in the CBD that used to be OK to hang out were suddenly not. But we're constantly gas-lighted into being told we're all imagining it, as police presence has all but disappeared (lots of "community officers" though).

Not true

Some things have gotten worse, some better.

Where I live in Ōtepoti a "one way door" policy on local bars at night has made a huge difference

The data is clear, crime is going down. It is possible to cherry pick the stats and find parts of crime going up, but generally down

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#184

Post by stubish »

HKH2 wrote: post #177
spoils19 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from a southern US state who faces similar "caricatures", there's no need to pretend and hide your feelings. Instead, I think we should join together against those who would oppress us and keep us down and uninformed in modern society.

Time for Australia to become a republic? I wonder how people would vote if there were another referendum.

It would already be a republic if the last referendum wasn't nobbled by the government at the time, where the only choice was between the status quo or giving more power to the historically untrusted elected government.

Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Australian_republic_refer...:

"With republican models of one form or another winning a majority in opinion polls prior to the referendum, it was expected that the republican referendum would pass. However, the question put was for a particular model of republic with a head of state appointed by Parliament. This was opposed by some supporters of a republic, who preferred a directly elected head of state. Some of these, such as Phil Cleary, advocated that republic supporters vote "No" in order that a future referendum could be put on the directly elected model. Some commentators—including the president of the Australian Republican Movement, Malcolm Turnbull—identified this split within the republican camp as a key reason for the referendum's failure."

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#185

Post by TapWaterBandit »

stubish wrote: post #181
TapWaterBandit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> despite the re-election being a clear sign that the will of the people is that they want a government led by (or at least informed by) experts who know what they’re doing. I would heavily challenge this just because the opposition is utterly incompetent in Victoria. I am as against the lockdowns as they come and think they border on criminal as an action taken by the state against citizens. A disgusting violation o…

There seemed to be avenues open for people to register their displeasure at Labor, via preferential voting. Two minor parties 'Angry Victorians' and 'Sack Dan Andrews' party were obvious targets to put before Labor, along with the usual alternatives such as Green, Reason, Legalize Cannabis (although those risked electing someone instead of a Labor candidate). Yet the Labor vote was overwhelming. It very much seems th…

I don't vote for clowns or lunatics which it is fair to say both "Angry Victorians" and "Sack Dan Andrews" are both.

I'll never vote Greens again until Lidia Thorpe is gone, shagging the heads of outlaw motorbike gangs is disgraceful behaviour for a member of parliament and completely disqualifies Greens as being a serious party from my point of view (at least while she remains a part of the party). And honestly the longer she remains the more I have to question the judgement that the members of the Green party show at all and makes it more likely that even if she eventually leaves I will never vote for them again.

Reason I do like the look of tbh and will consider them going forward. I can't say I am the most hyper-engaged voter so can't pretend I was fully aware of them or what they stood for. But looking them up now I like a lot of what they say and prefer their general policy stances over Labor.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#186

Post by GekkePrutser »

shawnz wrote: post #65
GekkePrutser wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone actually start smoking because they need nicotine? I've never heard that. It's always been peer pressure and only then do they get dependent on the nicotine.

Nicotine is a mild stimulant and we have practically built a society in which stimulant use is nearly essential (see caffeine for example)

Hmm yes but I don't believe people willingly pick nicotine to deal with that.

Most of us just grab an espresso. It's the people that were already smoking that go for the nicotine.

And if it were that harmless, why wouldn't they put it in drinks?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#187

Post by merek »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #110
ipnon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assisted suicide is legal in New Zealand. What if I want to smoke myself to death? Absolutism from the state is so noxious. Make cigarettes prohibitively expensive and difficult to acquire sure. But complete prohibition is an infringement on our natural right to decide what to consume.

You wanna smoke yourself to death? Do it at home. Most people want to smoke themselves to death in the open, around other people though. It's nobody's right to pollute our air for the sake of their bad habits, thus regulations.

> Most people want to smoke themselves to death in the open

This could very well be biased, as you would never notice people who smoke in private.

> It's nobody's right to pollute our air for the sake of their bad habits, thus regulations

Should driving a gasoline-powered vehicle for leisure be illegal?

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#188

Post by posterboy »

auveair wrote: post #109
posterboy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That zeal. From what I heared, anti-drug laws may be construed is that selling is a different matter and possession and production are accessory. That's why possession of small amounts of cannabis for example is decriminalized while traffiking is still prossecuted where I'm from. This is arguable because addictive substances will be sold with the intention of creating dependence, not unlike the loot box topic, thus i…

> And to be real, the wonderful smell acts on your parasympathic nervous system because of appetite, for the smell is associated with roasted food. Add to that the childish reflex of sucking on a nipple. So it is pretty much an eating disorder, in my humble opinion. Even Freud once said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar". There is no scientific basis for the whole "oral fixation", so calling it "childish" is pretty…

I wondered for a moment if there is less denigrating, more technical word, but haven't found one.

The suckling reflex is obvious. But I didn't mean to say grow out of it. Just don't give in.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#189

Post by deminature »

arghnoname wrote: post #128
CharlesW wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up in a household with two smoking parents, and it sucked. It sounds like you're saying that their freedom to inflict harm on you was more important than your freedom from the harmful health effects of secondhand smoke. Can that be true?

I think what it comes down to is who is decided what's harmful and do you trust those institutions. Is spanking harmful? It seems close to one of those things that get one into trouble with CPS What about letting a kid walk home from school on their own? We've seen parents get into trouble for that. How about letting the kid watch tv or eat too much junk food? What about teaching them certain ideas, ranging from raci…

Involuntarily inflicting second-hand cigarette smoke on a child is unambiguously harmful and there's no credible alternative interpretation or slippery slope involved here.

Re: New Zealand passes legislation banning cigarettes for future generations

#190

Post by posterboy »

nmeofthestate wrote: post #168
posterboy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That zeal. From what I heared, anti-drug laws may be construed is that selling is a different matter and possession and production are accessory. That's why possession of small amounts of cannabis for example is decriminalized while traffiking is still prossecuted where I'm from. This is arguable because addictive substances will be sold with the intention of creating dependence, not unlike the loot box topic, thus i…

I think it's more likely the "great taste" is down to it being an addictive substance. If smoking animal dung got you high, people would probably rationalise about it tasting great as well.

I'm not saying that's wrong. I thought that's understood. I don't understand the processing in detail, far from it. I just mean, the point that the GP defended really makes it worse.

Industrial manufacturers add tons to improve the taste like honey, licorice, probably stuff to negate the bad smell, like menthol.

I'm convinced this contributes to the primary pathway because it's a primary instinct and this thought allows for a better comparison to alcohol - drink, dehydrate, drink more, repeat ad nauseam.

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