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Time to end the war on drugs

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Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#181

Post by paulhauggis »

mkr-hn wrote: post #108
paulhauggis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

I would rather deal with more addicts who aren't afraid to seek help, and who have help available, than read about another massacre. Or kids being branded as criminals because of a stupid mistake. The addicts would end up dead or in a bad place if the object of the addiction is criminalized. A thousand addicts who can seek help is better than ten addicts who are driven deeper into poverty and crime.

" A thousand addicts who can seek help is better than ten addicts who are driven deeper into poverty and crime."

a thousand people who wouldn't have tried drugs in the first place to get addicted is better than 10 addicts who wanted to use drugs because it feels good.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#182

Post by paulhauggis »

paulhauggis wrote: post #177
paulhauggis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#183

Post by paulhauggis »

paulhauggis wrote: post #177
paulhauggis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I like to believe we're a culture that's willing to help people move past their mistakes to become productive members of society. I want to move the reality closer to that belief." If you truly believe this, then you wouldn't want to have drug addicts in the first place. Making it easy to start very addicting drugs in the first place (like heroin) with little to no consequences means we will most likely have more ad…

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

The irony of the community down voting this is fantastic!

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#184

Post by tomwalker »

I am a doctor in a Scottish hospital.

For every productive member of society using drugs there must be at least 2 -3 that drain from society

I rarely see anyone use methadone long term and rehabilitate themselves back to productive members of society. They end up being permanently high. My opinion is not isolated amongst my colleagues.

Spend a couple of hours in a hospital that provides free health care and see the devastation caused by all drugs.

Alcohol and smoking cause the largest volume of problems but many of the users have jobs.

Heroin produces real life zombies!

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#185

Post by foxit »

opendomain wrote: post #146

I have a feeling that the people that are promoting the end of the "war" are casual users or would like to be. Has any REAL experience with Drugs? I have - my family was ripped apart by drug abuse. Drugs alter your brain - addiction is VERY powerful. If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted and crime will go up for people to feed their habits.

I'm going to follow your anecdote with my own, for whatever it's worth.

For decades, my family has considered various members to have been "ripped apart" by drug and alcohol abuse. As it turns out, some were self-medicating, such as the schizophrenic who went undiagnosed and unmedicated for so many years it caused irreparable damage to his brain. Others were survivors of terrible abuse who drank, used drugs, and engaged in other rote addictive behaviors to shut out the pain and demons.* While more complicated than the more physical, medical problem of schizophrenia, the fact that these mental health concerns have also gone undiagnosed and untreated is the reason the substance abuse continues.

Addiction and addictive behaviors, whether involving substance or not (and there are many horribly destructive addictive behaviors that have nothing whatsoever to do with mind-altering and/or harmful substances) are not what we were taught to think by scare tactics in school. I see a lot of commentary throughout this thread that indicates a lot of people are educated in an adult manner on the topics of addiction and substance abuse, which is great. Getting there is a bit of a challenge, though, and one you have to undertake personally. Public policy regarding drug awareness, unfortunately, still revolves around cheap scare tactics.

* Homeless street addicts use substance to stop the voices in their heads or escape great mental pain. The substances are not where the problem originated. They're simply the way the person has of dealing with those problems.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#186

Post by grhino »

paulhauggis wrote: post #178
_gd3l wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is drug usage a "medical" problem? Because it's the ingestion of mind-altering substances to achieve a certain goal. Most often this goal is inebriation for entertainment purposes, some times (especially in indigenous cultures) it's a spiritual goal. > It's a personal choice. Sure, many times it is. But I think more often than you'd realize it's less of a choice and more of a predisposition. I mean, if some peo…

"Because it's the ingestion of mind-altering substances to achieve a certain goal. Most often this goal is inebriation for entertainment purposes, some times (especially in indigenous cultures) it's a spiritual goal." A "medical" problem to me is having cancer or a disease. Something you can't stop. If you don't ever ingest illegal drugs, you will never becom an addict of them (funny how that works). " I mean, if som…

Our current drug policy is already a large tax burden. The budget for the DEA alone is $2 billion. I imagine the imprisonment, local law enforcement, and court costs associated with our drug policy dwarf that number. If you are interested in less government control and less taxes, reexamining our drug policy is a place to look.

We all agree that drug abuse can have a detrimental effect on individuals and society. The question is whether our current policy is the most cost effective.

The DEA as is a government organization. And like all other organizations, it acts to grow its influence and power. If you are looking to limit government, all government organizations should be looked at not just those that give away your tax money to others.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#187

Post by huherto »

macuenca wrote: post #60
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #37

Great article. I would like to further suggest we end the use of the word "war" in contexts that do not involve mandatory conscription and the deaths of large numbers of combatants until one side totally surrenders. (This implies there is a "side" to be able to surrender.) Politicians have so destroyed the word "war" that it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about any use of violence by the state. Perhaps…

What you suggest not to call a "war" has killed thousands of people in countries like Mexico and Colombia[1]. Is this what you mean when you say "deaths of large numbers of combatants"? I come from a country that suffers this "war on drugs", I've had members of my family kidnapped, I've seen people being assassinated in front of me by hit-men. Some others haven't been that lucky. I, with you permission, call this a "…

The violence we see here in Mexico is mostly a "war between drug cartels".

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#188

Post by grhino »

opendomain wrote: post #146

I have a feeling that the people that are promoting the end of the "war" are casual users or would like to be. Has any REAL experience with Drugs? I have - my family was ripped apart by drug abuse. Drugs alter your brain - addiction is VERY powerful. If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted and crime will go up for people to feed their habits.

I question the value of all vice laws.

My brother is wasting his life as an alcoholic. Our current drug policy didn't help him or my family.

I have no interest in gambling, drinking, using currently illicit drugs, or prostitution. My drug use consists of over-the-counter pharmaceuticals to treat minor symptoms.

I am interested in laws that protect people from others. Some believe vice laws fall into that category. I do not.

If an adult chooses to hurt himself, that is his choice. The threat of force should not be used to stop him from doing so. We should ask the question why would an adult choose to hurt himself.

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#189

Post by [deleted] »

gerggerg wrote: post #74

This is always a fun page to look at when pondering The Land of the Free™ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_ra... And keep in mind, much of the prison system is privatized, many of those inmates work hard labor for far less than minimum wage, they have access to almost no real rehabilitation programs, and can't vote once they serve their time.

[deleted]

Re: Time to end the war on drugs

#190

Post by [deleted] »

opendomain wrote: post #146

I have a feeling that the people that are promoting the end of the "war" are casual users or would like to be. Has any REAL experience with Drugs? I have - my family was ripped apart by drug abuse. Drugs alter your brain - addiction is VERY powerful. If some drugs were legal, MORE people would become addicted and crime will go up for people to feed their habits.

[deleted]
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