Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#181

Post by thirdsun » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 10:22 AM UTC

lunarplague wrote: post #59

grej wrote: post #49

Don’t ever buy any high end electronics from Amazon. The counterfeit issues are rampant, and for the high end stuff they won’t take the fake back.

Where am I supposed to buy electronics online? I live 2 hours away from the nearest Microcenter, and newegg is also a nogo.

That question seems absolutely alien to me. Surely you have alternatives in the US, don't you? Here in Germany I visit Geizhals, search for the product in question, sort by price and order from one of the countless shops that have the product in stock.

Maybe I'll end up on Amazon, maybe not - they all can deliver quite fast and they all have to adhere to european minium return policy standards. So the handling of returns isn't something most customers ever have to think about.

Just to give an example here's the price comparison for a current AMD CPU: https://geizhals.de/amd-ryzen-7-7700x-100-100000591wof-a2801...

Don't you have anything similar over there?

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#182

Post by kuschku » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 11:07 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #176

kuschku wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why, for large items from untrustworthy retailers, I start filming the moment the delivery person rings the bell and film the entire handover process, including signing the delivery, constantly keeping the product in frame until the package is open, I've got out the product, installed it in a test setup, and it's actually working. I ordered a GPU on ebay earlier this year, and followed this process to the lett…

I'm all for routinely doing the diligence you can. But doing so shouldn't be a de facto requirement either. If Amazon is an "untrustworthy" retailer, so is basically everywhere. And nobody has time to wait around for a package and catch the delivery person, nor interrupt the rest of their day to immediately use the item. And it's going to gall you just as much if Amazon defrauds you over a $20 item or a $700 one.

I don't care if I lose $20, but $700 is still quite a lot of money and worth fighting over.

And honestly, every other online retailer is more trustworthy than Amazon, because they're not marketplaces, and you can actually reach humans who are allowed to make decisions. Something that Amazon is sorely lacking.

That said, it's not an "Amazon" issue, it's an issue with all marketplaces.

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#183

Post by lunarplague » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:27 PM UTC

thirdsun wrote: post #181

lunarplague wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where am I supposed to buy electronics online? I live 2 hours away from the nearest Microcenter, and newegg is also a nogo.

That question seems absolutely alien to me. Surely you have alternatives in the US, don't you? Here in Germany I visit Geizhals, search for the product in question, sort by price and order from one of the countless shops that have the product in stock. Maybe I'll end up on Amazon, maybe not - they all can deliver quite fast and they all have to adhere to european minium return policy standards. So the handling of ret…

If we do, I have never experienced something that works and is useful, but just by using PCPartPicker to see shops to buy electronics my choices are Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg, B&H, Gamestop, and three other companies I have never heard of. The thing about that is I don't have europeaan minimum return policy standards, so any website I don't know about can rip me off and I cannot do anything about it.

I also live in a pretty remote area, so I have to drive 45 minutes to 2 hours to be in any big box store.

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#184

Post by mindslight » Tue, Dec 06, 2022, 1:48 PM UTC

kuschku wrote: post #182

mindslight wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for routinely doing the diligence you can. But doing so shouldn't be a de facto requirement either. If Amazon is an "untrustworthy" retailer, so is basically everywhere. And nobody has time to wait around for a package and catch the delivery person, nor interrupt the rest of their day to immediately use the item. And it's going to gall you just as much if Amazon defrauds you over a $20 item or a $700 one.

I don't care if I lose $20, but $700 is still quite a lot of money and worth fighting over. And honestly, every other online retailer is more trustworthy than Amazon, because they're not marketplaces, and you can actually reach humans who are allowed to make decisions. Something that Amazon is sorely lacking. That said, it's not an "Amazon" issue, it's an issue with all marketplaces.

I'm going to care either way, because I would fight with their phone support and go through the credit card dispute process regardless of the amount, for the principle of the matter. I probably wouldn't take the $20 to small claims court though, unless I had lots of free time. Though ultimately I can understand that your getting defrauded out of $700 stings a lot more than if you were defrauded out of $20.

> because they're not marketplaces

Most online retailers are turning into marketplaces. That's the doubly unfortunate thing about Amazon's shitty business practices - everyone else sees them and feels compelled to adopt them.

Trying to name retailers that sell electronics that aren't marketplaces - B&H, Adorama, Bestbuy. Maybe Monoprice? Although they've expanded their selection so much, it feels like something dodgy is going on.

I'm actually a big fan of eBay because despite being a marketplace, they don't handle inventory themselves so the incentives line up better - they understand sellers will sometimes ship broken items, try to stonewall returns, etc. I understand the fees are a bit high for sellers. But as a buyer, being buyer-friendly is my #1 concern, and eBay understands buyers are the ones with the money.

Then again I could be one ML classification or policy change away from eBay's dispute process not being so favorable to me, too. Although I haven't had to do one in a while - most sellers have made peace with buyers' power and just offer free shipping for returns.

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#185

Post by kleiba » Wed, Dec 07, 2022, 8:37 AM UTC

danuker wrote: post #84

kleiba wrote: post #65

A friend of mine recently ordered a Chromebook which was on sale during the black friday week. Some days later, he gets a message from Amazon that the computer got "lost in the mail", but they refuse to send him a new device for the same price.

Did he get money back at least? If not, you'd be surprised "small claims" can be up to $25k in some states.

I believe he did.

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#186

Post by vegadw » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 3:24 AM UTC

elexhobby wrote: post #180

Merad wrote: post #158

Some of Amazon's policies are real head scratchers. Last year I bought a high end ultrawide monitor from them. I believe I paid about $1500 for it originally. Two or three days after it arrived, it went on sale for about $300 less. IME most companies have a policy in the fine print where if an item goes on sale less than a week after purchase they'll refund the difference, if you ask. So I contact Amazon support. The…

FWIW I've been told similar by Costco too, so Amazon isn't unique in this respect. My guess is that it adds some friction to the process. Refunding money is a purely digital activity, while refunding requires to you go and ship it, wait for the new item to arrive, etc, so you won't do it unless the savings are worth the time investment.

I suspect this is the case, but IMHO the practice should be illegal. If you accept returns for the purpose of price reduction you should just do the price reduction directly, both for the sake of the environmental cost and as a matter of treating consumers decently.

Re: Amazon shipped fake product, refuses refund until 'correct' item returned

#187

Post by jsnelgro » Fri, Dec 09, 2022, 6:51 AM UTC

I had a very similar experience except it was a 1st gen MS surface book packaged in a 2nd box. They look nearly identical. Spent months getting gaslighted by Amazon support. My coworker who'd previously worked at Amazon Fulfillment suggested I email jeff@amazon.com directly. The case was picked up by a higher-level CS rep and they reversed the charges. No apology or concessions for the horrible experience otherwise. I truly hate this company.