Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

livelaw.in

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 230 posts

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#181

Post by 35amxn35 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #116
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. yes yes. yes. yes 100%. the same reason i avoid whatsapp and signal like the plague. "mobile number" is in itself a big identifier when you are living in a place where you have o do mandatory KYC so that the government knows which each mobile number is linked to the actual human being. i dont care signal doesnt hold any messages. the government can ask for my number and they can use the xkcd spanner method to do…

>>americans/europeans can hardly imagine. Americans and Europeans have the desire to learn this lesson the hard way. They lack the wisdom to learn from others and instead believe their governments are the noble governments that would never violate their rights for power.

Europeans especially. In my experience, they are extremely ignorant in this regard to the point of child-like naivety, but let them learn the hard way. It's truly the best way to learn after all.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#182

Post by MattJ100 »

derwiki wrote: post #149
leetnewb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, I got my entire non-technical family onto xmpp/jabber with Snikket (which is a highly opinionated packaging of existing xmpp server and clients with minor tweaks). They scan a QR code to download the app and join the server. It is e2ee out of the box and the experience is quite comfortable and seamless, even for a non-technical person.

There are varying degrees of “non-technical”, and you lost most of my family at “scan a QR code”

I know it's an anecdote, and I'm the founder of the Snikket project, but I rolled out an early version to 10+ family members during lockdown. The majority of them were remote and ages from 80. I emailed them the invitation link, and that was about it. They all managed to sign up with no issues.

Scanning a QR isn't actually necessary. That flow exists for when you open the invitation on e.g. a desktop or laptop, and you actually want to set up Snikket on your phone/tablet. The invitation page guides you through you what to do in that case, you don't need to know what a "QR code" is. But most people just open the invitation directly on their phone, and it has a magic link to install the app.

In some ways it's easier, because you don't need to go through the SMS verification and stuff that the phone-number-based platforms require. I know various APIs and hacks have made that flow easier over the years, but it's still an extra step for non-technical people to get lost in. It's also an obstacle for people who want to use a tablet, such as my children who are too young for phones.

In any case, I'd encourage people to be less defeatist about the adoption of more open alternatives (intended or not, that's how I read your comment). It is possible... my own family average no more or less technical than any other. They manage to use WhatsApp without help, and they manage to use Snikket without help. And of course I'm not the only person using it successfully.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#183

Post by ViViDboarder »

emptysongglass wrote: post #76
ls15 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transport encryption does not make it private . Optional e2ee is as good as no e2ee. And they rolled their own crypto... For some reason my non-technical friends still would be very surprised to learn that Whatsapp is more private than Telegram.

I don't think you understand how Telegram encrypts its chats. MTProto is also used to encrypt Cloud Chats at rest. It's not just transport. Cloud Chats are not e2ee because the keys are held by Telegram. Moxie also "rolled his own crypto". "Rolling your own crypto" is typically used disparagingly by those who claim moral or intellectual superiority over the competition. The Signal Protocol was rolled by someone, yes?…

Rolling your own crypto is bad, unless you’re an authority on crypto. Moxy certainly is. Also, Signal Protocol isn’t an encryption algorithm. As far as I know, it still uses AES and Curve25519 for the actual encryption.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#184

Post by prego_xo »

freeqaz wrote: post #168
derwiki wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are varying degrees of “non-technical”, and you lost most of my family at “scan a QR code”

I thought this was a skill that most people had now that most restaurants only give QR codes for menus?

I've only seen QR code menus in big cities and the southwest U.S.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#185

Post by prego_xo »

leetnewb wrote: post #171
alistairSH wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they use it to chat with classmates from high school? Given my parents generation (Boomer, born 1948), they're mostly all on Facebook, so they either use Facebook groups+Messenger, SMS, or email (yikes!). Family chat is just on a giant SMS chain, which admittedly is awkward as there are several "sub-chains" with some people removed. Or is my family just weird in their chat preferences?

My folks are in the same age group and don't care for FB. Not sure that is representative of boomers as a whole, but the family generally likes the idea of communicating on a private, secure chat system.

In my experience, elder folks prefer familiarity and convenience above all else. My parents were born in the '50s and hate to relearn their phones.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#187

Post by newscracker »

baxtr wrote: post #45
ls15 wrote: post #2

Don't use messengers that ask for your phone number and aren't end-to-end encrypted. Use services that store as little data as possible. If data is stored, it can be given away and I would assume that it will be given away. Telegram disguises itself as encrypted chat app, when it is actually just a regular centralized plaintext messenger that has an encryption feature that nobody uses.

Which ones don't ask for a phone number?

Matrix (with the Element client), Wire and Threema are a few options that don't require phone numbers, offer end-to-end encryption and have mobile clients. IIRC, the chats also sync across devices (with some duration limits measured in weeks) on all these platforms.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#188

Post by discardedrefuse »

antisocialist wrote: post #109

Telegram is convenient, the bot feature's great. But some things about it suck and they're prone to government interference privacy-wise. One of the more recent E2EE private messaging apps with metadata shredding and no registration requirement for is https://xx.network/messenger It's available for Android & iOS. F-Droid users can build Android version from the source ( https://git.xx.network/elixxir/ ) and load it t…

There are so many buzzwords on that landing page. "quantum leap in privacy", "ultra-private messaging", "quantum-resistant and decentralized." And then you get to the best part: "built on the xx network blockchain". Web3 still out here trying to happen. Don't forget to buy some xx coins while you're there!

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#189

Post by prego_xo »

phpisthebest wrote: post #116
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. yes yes. yes. yes 100%. the same reason i avoid whatsapp and signal like the plague. "mobile number" is in itself a big identifier when you are living in a place where you have o do mandatory KYC so that the government knows which each mobile number is linked to the actual human being. i dont care signal doesnt hold any messages. the government can ask for my number and they can use the xkcd spanner method to do…

>>americans/europeans can hardly imagine. Americans and Europeans have the desire to learn this lesson the hard way. They lack the wisdom to learn from others and instead believe their governments are the noble governments that would never violate their rights for power.

I know, right? I heard Americans are born without half of their brain.

Re: After Delhi High Court ruling, Telegram discloses personal details of users

#190

Post by phpisthebest »

prego_xo wrote: post #189
phpisthebest wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>americans/europeans can hardly imagine. Americans and Europeans have the desire to learn this lesson the hard way. They lack the wisdom to learn from others and instead believe their governments are the noble governments that would never violate their rights for power.

I know, right? I heard Americans are born without half of their brain.

I know denial of biology is the rage these days, but Humans are born with very limited brain capacity and develop it over time as they age, maxing out about 25 years of age or so.

One of the reasons why Democrats want 16-year-olds to vote, because only people with limited brain development would support most of their policies ;)

Post reply on HN