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Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

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Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#181

Post by BoiledCabbage »

datadata wrote: post #180
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Derivatives are what inflated the housing bubble prior to 2008. Yes derivatives are a big part of what inflated the bubble prior to 2008, but the fed purchasing them didn't do anything to maintain home prices. The combination of (ARMs + low interest rates) and lenders being able to immediately flip mortgages to other to be combined in CDOs and other MBS derivates inflated housing. Lenders could make loans that they…

You are making this too complicated. If the fed did not buy any MBS, what would have happened to home prices in the long run? Financial markets would have failed, and then home prices would have plummeted.

That's not propping up the housing market.

That's like saying "Avoiding nuclear war is propping up the housing market. If we have nuclear war then society ends, the population collapses and the housing market with it. So avoiding nuclear war is propping up the housing market."

It's a terrible analogy to attempt to make. And it's wrong.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#182

Post by notch656a »

pa7x1 wrote: post #166
dvt wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeFi rug pulls were extremely common in the bull market, here's a list[1]. Obviously doing it "next weekend" is going to be much harder given that FTX just collapsed and all of crypto is going to hell in a hand basket. [1] https://coinscreed.com/defi-top-10-list-of-crypto-rug-pulls....

This list is absolute rubbish. 1. OneCoin: Not even a cryptocurrency, a centralized currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneCoin 2. Thodex: A centralized cryptocurrency exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thodex Actual DeFi cannot be rug-pulled, by design. Not even the US can taken down something like Tornado Cash. What a smart contract can or cannot do is written in open source code. How are you going to rug-…

Excuse my extremely informal and probably dumb thought process behind this, but can't de-fi be rug-pulled as follows

1) Create code with subtle but privately known "bug" that allows profitable behavior far outside the bounds of what you advertise to the public as your code doing.

2) Wait for liquidity pools within the contract to build up.

3) Exploit the "bug"

Yes according to "Code-is-law" you're not doing anything "unlaw(code)ful." But it's a rug pull in everything but name. De-fi is basically never introduced as "there's contract 0x343cdc.... on the blockchain, go read the EVM code as nothing will be explained" so intent in the way something is introduced is instrumental here.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#183

Post by mirzap »

lxgr wrote: post #170
mirzap wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Wealth today is preserved thanks to "deflationary" instruments, whose value rises over time - like gold, silver or even stocks. Rich people take a loans of inflationary $$$ against their deflationary assets to generate economic activity. With that they not only preserve their fortune, but generate a lot more thanks to that economic activity they initiated. Bitcoin will allow that to everyone, not just the…

What incentivizes people to spend their Bitcoin today (whether as a business expense or for their cost of living) rather than holding on to them until tomorrow, getting richer passively? Would lending be allowed in your model? If so, what makes it different from the status quo (fractional reserve banking and ultimately debt becoming money itself)? If not, how do I start a business or purchase a home without the lump…

Your daily needs. If you get paid in bitcoin you have to spend some in order to make living. Bitcoin, in contrast to gold, is infinitely divisible. As production capacity increases and Bitcoin spreads to billions of people smaller and smaller monetary units will be used.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#184

Post by datadata »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #181
datadata wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making this too complicated. If the fed did not buy any MBS, what would have happened to home prices in the long run? Financial markets would have failed, and then home prices would have plummeted.

That's not propping up the housing market. That's like saying "Avoiding nuclear war is propping up the housing market. If we have nuclear war then society ends, the population collapses and the housing market with it. So avoiding nuclear war is propping up the housing market." It's a terrible analogy to attempt to make. And it's wrong.

The difference between nuclear war and a market is much much wider than the gap between derivatives and the underlying market. It is your straw man analogy that is ridiculous. Look, the Fed itself says that the goal of MBS purchase is to support housing markets:

> What was the policy objective of the Federal Reserve's program to purchase agency mortgage-backed securities? The goal of the program was to provide support to mortgage and housing markets and to foster improved conditions in financial markets more generally.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/mbs_faq.html

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#185

Post by pa7x1 »

notch656a wrote: post #182
pa7x1 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This list is absolute rubbish. 1. OneCoin: Not even a cryptocurrency, a centralized currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneCoin 2. Thodex: A centralized cryptocurrency exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thodex Actual DeFi cannot be rug-pulled, by design. Not even the US can taken down something like Tornado Cash. What a smart contract can or cannot do is written in open source code. How are you going to rug-…

Excuse my extremely informal and probably dumb thought process behind this, but can't de-fi be rug-pulled as follows 1) Create code with subtle but privately known "bug" that allows profitable behavior far outside the bounds of what you advertise to the public as your code doing. 2) Wait for liquidity pools within the contract to build up. 3) Exploit the "bug" Yes according to "Code-is-law" you're not doing anything…

Nothing dumb about what you said, that's a valid argument. A bug, either unintended or intended as a hidden "feature" for the scammer. Is one possible way to execute a rug-pull on DeFi or, in general, result in losses for its users.

But IMHO this is still a better approach. Serious contracts go through multiple audits, deploye hefty bug bounties and if you are very risk averse you can avoid a new deployed contract for certain amount of time until it's not only audited but battle-tested. As a user perhaps you don't know and shouldn't care about the specificities of the contract or its security but you can rely on the thousands of other eyeballs that do.

For instance, a few audits of Uniswap:

- https://github.com/ConsenSys/Uniswap-audit-report-2018-12/bl... - https://rskswap.com/audit.html

Bug bounty program of Uniswap (up to 0.5M USD per critical bug):

https://uniswap.org/bug-bounty

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#186

Post by UltraViolence »

shp0ngle wrote: post #64
UltraViolence wrote: post #43

In other news: the several international banks are moving forward with their "Digital Dollar" experiment. It's news like this that keeps me holding on to my Bitcoin. Once digital cryptocurrencies become in vogue again BTC will once again become valuable.

I don’t get what are these “digital dollars” supposed to do. There already is a digital dollar. It’s called “dollar”.

They're an alternative to Bitcoin, whilst at the same time guaranteeing government oversight and control of the money supply.

Money == power.

Alternative currency not created and vetted by the government will mean a loss of power for the politicians.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#187

Post by UltraViolence »

shkkmo wrote: post #117
UltraViolence wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there's no added value in having a digital dollar variant which is ultimately controlled by the government and Big Money. But its existence will give independent digital cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin more legitimacy, which translates into higher demand, which translates into a higher price. I foresee countries like Russia, China and other rogue nations betting big on digital cryptocurrencies to evade sanction…

> But its existence will give independent digital cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin more legitimacy How exactly? The legitimate uses will move to the legitimate digital currencies which will leave only illicit and speculative users, further tanking Bitcoin's reputation.

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#188

Post by rmbyrro »

notch656a wrote: post #120
rmbyrro wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it been done by you? If it's so easy with such high rewards, why don't you try an MVP the next weekend and see how it goes?

Obviously if I haven't personally done it, it isn't possible. I could also get rich knocking people in the head with bats and taking their wallets. For a little while. It's telling some people who let their true colors show, espousing ideas like "hey if I can make good money hurting others I'll do it, and why haven't you!" Crime is not hard, most houses are easily broken into, many people can be tricked, the human bo…

Not contesting the possibility. Just the easiness to do it. I don't think it's easy and it probably requires some good level of intelligence to pull this off.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#189

Post by shkkmo »

UltraViolence wrote: post #187
shkkmo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But its existence will give independent digital cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin more legitimacy How exactly? The legitimate uses will move to the legitimate digital currencies which will leave only illicit and speculative users, further tanking Bitcoin's reputation.

There's no such thing as bad publicity.

Objectively not true. What the common idiom "There's no such thing as bad publicity" actually is intended to mean is that "sometimes bad publicity can actually be good", which is true.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#190

Post by boc »

throwup wrote: post #179
lxgr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentivizes people to spend their Bitcoin today (whether as a business expense or for their cost of living) rather than holding on to them until tomorrow, getting richer passively? Would lending be allowed in your model? If so, what makes it different from the status quo (fractional reserve banking and ultimately debt becoming money itself)? If not, how do I start a business or purchase a home without the lump…

> What incentivizes people to spend their Bitcoin today (whether as a business expense or for their cost of living) rather than holding on to them until tomorrow, getting richer passively? The same thing that incentivizes people to spend their USD today instead of passively getting rich using VTSAX

USD is inflationary by design. The intent is to encourage investment, not stuffing it under the mattress. So no, your example doesn’t work.
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