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Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

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Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#181
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never got the value of voice devices. In my experience you learn how to make them do 1-2 things. You learn a few patterns. But beyond that, even if they work 95% of the time, that 1 in 20 is annoying enough to make me not want to use it and just push a few buttons. Maybe case in point is using voice in the car. It should be the best, most obvious application. Yet aside from maybe texting, people want things like Ap…

CarPlay and Siri is a pretty compelling pairing though. Looking/touching is dangerous while driving, so that is minimised by also being able to talk to the robot.

It would be nice were that actually the case. However, in practice, I tend to find that doing most things just using voice with my hands on the wheel and eyes on the road ends up being a really frustrating experience. This isn't a particular knock on Siri specifically. I'm pretty sure I'd find Google or Alexa similarly annoying in the same context. As someone says up-thread, Alexa at home is fine for a few formulaic things that I know the incantation for and pretty useless for everything else.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#183

Something I've never understood about layoffs is that large corporations have nearly unlimited borrowing power. Amazon's market cap is just over $1 trillion, so it could probably borrow up to ~10x or $10 trillion against that (almost half the US GDP). Isn't that enough money to keep employees through a downturn? The flip side is that individuals have almost no borrowing power. The bottom 40% of the US population has…

If my business is valued at a million dollars and I take out a loan for a million, my business is now valued at 0. That’s basic accounting. Amazon had a net income of 14B last year - no one will let them borrow anything close to their market cap, much less 10X it. Edit: This assumes I spend my loan on payroll which is what the OP originally suggested.

Your original million doesnt go anywhere. If you start with a million and borrow a million, you now have 2 million in assets and 1 million in liabilities. Your valuation is not zero.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#184

For those of you in the business who missed 2000-2002 and/or to a lesser extent 2008, you have no idea what is coming. Good luck.

> to a lesser extent 2008 Why to a lesser extent? 2008 seemed far worse due to the overall recession impacts and the fact that it wasn't just tech companies. I got laid off from my tech job at a non-tech company for example. Both occurrences wrecked a lot of lives (mine included) though, I'll give you that.

I think 2008 was broader but just from my own personal experience it seemed much worse for tech after the dot.com crash. I worked at the time selling server and storage hardware and after the dot.com crash you could get top of the line servers for pennies on the dollar - this was before AWS et al. It crippled sales for 2 years.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#185
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"the pandemic pushed all these tech companies up artificially. they hired in record numbers to meet demand and thought it would be permanent/the new floor." This is the really surprising thing to me - many(most?) of these companies are data driven companies. Companies with teams of analytics folks, data scientists, modeling-experts and teams of engineers working on tools to do ML and large scale data analytics. Do n…

I hope that if we've learned anything from the past few years, it's that you can interpret and manipulate data to make it say whatever you want to say. That's true even when analyzing data about the present, doubly so trying to predict the future. Being data-driven is a method for justifying decisions. But it's still a human making a decision in the end.

>But it's still a human making a decision in the end

I've got a story here from a previous job that illustrates this.

I used to be part of an Analytics and Forecasting team at a well known non-tech company. It's a global company that sells a lot of things to consumers. This means they strive to have a very good understanding of sales and manufacturing volume because that drives everything from raw material orders and supplier contracts to how much of product to put where so people can go and buy it.

We had short term forecasting teams generating forecasts (at a brand level) and analysts (mostly aggregations, not really statistical inference) that rolled into a medium term analytics/forecasting team(s), that rolled into a long term analytics/forecasting team(s). Not to mention Research teams that did pure statistical and economic modeling to try and understand market factors in a more comprehensive way so they could better inform all these forecasts. All of this went right to the top of the food chain.

The glue between all these teams were managers. And one of the fundamental problem for managers with all of this comes from this simple question - if one of these teams provides a forecast that is very different from the rest, what does that mean? Is that team right or wrong? And how does that information now flow into the other teams so they can incorporate it into the info that goes upstairs.

From this question emerges an astonishing amount of group think. Not just from the company I worked at, but at all competitors as well.

When companies ask "Do we forecast sales to go up" they are really asking "Do we think this market segment is going to go up in the future and we have the right strategy to move up with it?" Cars, Snacks, phones, whatever the market segment, you're really asking how you are doing compared to your competitors in the space.

To understand where you are going, you need to understand how your competitors are doing. This data comes from agencies and consulting houses. But since everybody uses the same data from the same agencies, everybody is feeding each other. What can emerge from this is a massive amount of group think.

I'm greatly simplifying everything of course. When these teams get it right they do amazing stuff like making sure the thing you want to buy is available when you want to buy it. But when they get it wrong, it seems like most everybody else gets it wrong as well. This can slowdown an entire industry as everybody realizes they got it wrong.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#186

The recession depending on who you ask seem to be either mild or not happening. All the government indicators (recent inflation, gdp, jobs report) seem to paint a thriving economy. So why are these companies still shedding jobs? I'm starting to wonder if the tech industry is disproportionately impacted similar to dot com bubble from 2000.

I assume they see the recession coming and look to shed cost early rather than wait until deep into recession.

Profits will be down so need to offset cost. Keep the share price high and get those option bonuses.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#187

Something I've never understood about layoffs is that large corporations have nearly unlimited borrowing power. Amazon's market cap is just over $1 trillion, so it could probably borrow up to ~10x or $10 trillion against that (almost half the US GDP). Isn't that enough money to keep employees through a downturn? The flip side is that individuals have almost no borrowing power. The bottom 40% of the US population has…

Lol it cannot borrow 10 trillion $$. Where are these make believe numbers coming from? And it can carry the employees at somewhere between moderate to severe risk of bankruptcy (in the case of amazon, it is lower than moderate).

If you have a crystal ball and know when the economy will reverse, no one will fire anyone. Otherwise you have to cut costs and human labor are the biggest costs in most companies. Sure, we could get into a culture where we ask people to take pay cuts for a brief period in return for stability but that seems to not work for some reason so people get laid off.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#188

This is so completely normal in these industries that it is a non-headline. Companies that have so much cash they can employ 100K+ developers on top of goodness knows how many designers, PMs, POs etc. of course they hire and fire. They can afford to offer above-average conditions when the markets need it and everyone goes flocking there only to be surprised when their job is taken away at the next point the sharehold…

Wish I could figure out how to do an Ask HN for non-profit hiring. My previous attempts failed.

Try government.

Though I had no luck finding government jobs, because the red tape is ridiculous.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#189
post #77
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attrition rates at Amazon are really something else

They do have 1.5 million employees (per Google)

Which can be confusing because there are two amazons - the Walmart competitor and the cloud company.

Same with Apple, to be fair. Apple retail may employ more than Apple corporate.

Re: Amazon is said to plan to lay off thousands of employees

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they keep employees through a downturn? They're profit-driven entities. Of course they're going to dump externalities onto the public any chance they get, and we should strive to limit their capacity to do so... But in this case I'm not sure what you mean exactly? Nor do I understand what you mean about bringing antitrust because of layoffs? That sounds much more difficult to justify than most of the other…

This comment is unnecessarily cynical. The unemployment benefits system is indeed designed to buffer against unemployment which is why both employees and employers pay into it.

What's unnecessarily cynical? They have a duty to shareholders.
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