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Opening the North American charging standard

tesla.com

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Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#181

Post by DannyBee »

wilg wrote: post #137
DannyBee wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are already 3x more level 2 + CCS ports than tesla ports. In the US: There are 36000 individual tesla connections There are 92000 l2 j1772 ports. There are 22000 CCS DC fast ports They are comparing the DC fast number to the tesla number, and ignoring the j1772 number.

They are comparing fast charging only, yes. (Also all Teslas come with a J1772 adapter.)

Which is pointless to compare -

1. All the other cars are J1772 + CCS

2. So you'd have to provide adapters for every other non-tesla car, or replace every non-tesla port. Not just the 20k CCS ones, but the 96K J1772 ones.

3. They are claiming a false ubiquity to make it seem like now is a good time to do this. The point at which there are 3x other plugs than yours is not a point where others are going to switch to your thing.

In fact, they are almost certainly doing it because they see the train coming at them, and don't want to deal with it.

It's too late.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#182

Post by Dylan16807 »

zzzeek wrote: post #176
lolc wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I should have taken my own advice and read the context more :-)

to be clear the term "killed off" was directly from kortilla's sentence "The ones in NA are absolute trash and Tesla is right to try to kill them off as fast as possible before electric car volume that uses them becomes significant.". I did not introduce that term and that's why I quoted it. if CCS connectors are "killed off", that renders CCS cars out in the cold, unless adapters are produced which as yet don't exis…

There's no way the connectors get killed off and there are no adapters.

Also, so far there's been no reason to make an adapter, so nobody has. It should be straightforward.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#183

Post by ip26 »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #177
ip26 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since good adapters exist, it's not really a deeply committing bet.

Adapters remove the benefits of having a "superior" charging standard. It may be that the Tesla connector is better than CCS, but Tesla+CCS_adapter is going to be obviously worse. (This is something you're going to use every day, even a slightly worse ergonomic experience adds up.)

My point is you get a Tesla for many reasons, not just the NACS plug, and if CCS wins you still enjoy all those other things.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#184

Post by _joel »

bsimpson wrote: post #152
darknavi wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's most T.C. videos I've seen. Often niche topics but I sat* through (and enjoyed) 20 minutes of why an obscure can opener is superior than the mainstream ones.

Can you please share a link - who/what is TC?

Technology Connections channel on youtube

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#185

Post by novok »

DannyBee wrote: post #180
novok wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those metrics are deceptive, because tesla has consistently working chargers while the other ones tend to be broken at a way higher rate.

I have no idea where your data is coming from, and doesn't match my tesla or non-tesla experience, but this actually would change nothing even if true.

You see constant EV road trip comparison videos and consistently see how bad EV chargers hamper the non-tesla cars, while the tesla chargers are consistently reliable. Go look around in the news and more.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#186

Post by vel0city »

Symbiote wrote: post #159
matthewdgreen wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh god why. Didn't realize that. Rest of the point stands.

3 phase vs 120V. But it doesn't matter. The number of vehicles taken either way is negligible. In the old days, you had to change the miles/km speedometer to the other one when you took you car with you as you emigrated. Buying a charge adapter is easier.

Arguing about 120V is a red herring. Just about every US home has 240V service, most cars will charge at 240V not 120V.

Single phase vs three phase is the big reason for a difference between US and EU charger plugs though. Three phase is pretty uncommon in residential areas in the US but is common in many EU countries. Industrial customers in the US will often have three phase but it's pretty rare to see outside of that.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#187

Post by rootusrootus »

chrisseaton wrote: post #174
rootusrootus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2500 amps? I don't think liquid cooling is enough to allow for that. You are probably thinking of the megawatt charger for the semi, which is different. A regular V3 supercharger caps out at 250kW. There are rumors that the V4 might get closer to 400kW, but as far as I know those remain rumors. There's also a rumor of an upgrade of V3 superchargers to about 325kW, which would at least be getting close to CCS1.

Only going on what the article says "the Tesla charging connector is the most proven in North America, offering AC charging and up to 1 MW DC charging in one slim package".

Tesla themselves say 250kW. https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#188

Post by chrisseaton »

rootusrootus wrote: post #187
chrisseaton wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only going on what the article says "the Tesla charging connector is the most proven in North America, offering AC charging and up to 1 MW DC charging in one slim package".

Tesla themselves say 250kW. https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging

But my source is also Tesla themselves - and yours is 2019 and mine 2022?

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#189

Post by kortilla »

kgermino wrote: post #84
kortilla wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's already the standard, Not sure how you’re defining “standard” but given that Tesla has the major majority here, its connector is the standard most people are familiar with. If you just mean, it’s something not proprietary that other manufacturers agreed on, then sure.

I mean it's something not proprietary that _every_ other manufacturer and _the federal government_ agreed on. You can't reasonably say that e.g. USB is a standard and CCS is not

But that’s an empty gesture when the size is so irrelevant.

>You can't reasonably say that e.g. USB is a standard and CCS is not

CCS is “a standard” but Tesla is “the standard” from a consumer perspective.

The same thing happened with apple lightning early on. It was far better and dominated micro usb. If they had opened it early during usb-c it would have just killed usb-c and been the new standard.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#190

Post by kortilla »

rootusrootus wrote: post #140
kortilla wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re confusing the CCS chargers outside of North America. The ones in NA are absolute trash and Tesla is right to try to kill them off as fast as possible before electric car volume that uses them becomes significant. Tesla is well over half of the electric cars. There’s no reason for them to accommodate the absolute worst standard at their stations.

> Tesla is well over half of the electric cars. Their year-over-year market share is declining sharply, however. They should have tried this move five years ago. Even if Tesla updates the Model 3 & Y to be competitive on features, the sheer quantity of competition means they were never going to dominate the space. If they choose to keep removing features from their cars instead of adding them, I start to wonder what…

>Their year-over-year market share is declining sharply, however.

By what measure? I would love to buy some electric car that competes with teslas on range/performance but can only find vaporware or far behind competitors.

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