> That gnawing sense of futility and impending failure that I’d been feeling for 15 months would finally, today, get addressed.
Sounds like this guy just needed to feel heard. Therapy might have been easier but what do I know.
Story: “It would be career limiting..."
181–190 of 342 posts
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what's more depressing, that they didn't think that someone exfiltrating the data was an issue as long as they didn't lose it, or the fact that even if customer data was stolen, they probably were correct that there wouldn't be any ramifications for the negligence.
Oh, to be fair I should mention that it was an internal system. External threat actors were not a major concern. However, we had trading desk developers with access to the prd system and their own development space. The major concern in my mind is an absent minded copy/paste of a drop table, maybe a disgruntled employee.
> Oh, to be fair I should mention that it was an internal system. External threat actors were not a major concern.
Preaching to the choir, but that's simple black and white thinking. Once an attacker has gotten in, it's better if at least there's less damage they can do. The more damage an insider could do, the more damage an outsider who social engineers some credentials can do.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#183I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
Your take is exactly what is wrong with the culture. An existential problem is not a problem because you didn't sell it correctly. You first need to "massage" the individuals to create some kind of coalition. A coalition willing to accept basic facts or responsibility. If a CEO were to be a fly on the wall in this room and overhear it all, they ought to fire every single manager in the room. Quite obviously they are…
Any anecdotes of a company that was successfully split up as you suggest?
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#184I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
The current PM team being incompetent seems to be a very common occurrence.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#185I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
Doesn't sound like that was the job of this little committee. As written, it was to review and particularly identify extra work. Presenting solutions to this kind of problem isn't explicitly and often implicitly the function of the developer(s), especially in a room full of managers. Whose job it is literally to identify solutions to this exact kind of problem.
Specifically, developers are in charge of tactical solutions, while management should be paying attention to strategy. Micromanagement is one of the many failure modes we talk about here, there, and everywhere. But having to do all of the strategy work because your bosses either can't be arsed to do so or can't find their way out of a wet paper bag, is another failure mode we talk about a lot.
Leadership should be leading, not being lead by the nose. But when they won't you do what you can. It's not right, but it's expedient and somewhat sanity saving. Though if you take it too far you find all new kinds of insanity.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Would you simply tell them they're not doing their job, or would you ask questions, talk in private, and try to dig in tactfully? Telling a manager "we uncovered work that wasn't in the original spec" isn't literally the same thing as telling them they aren't doing their job.
I think the confusion is, if their job is to execute a $60M contract successfully, and you tell them that it’s going to require an extra 12 months, you’re almost literally telling them they aren’t doing their job. Because arguably they weren’t. Their job was to guide the project successfully, which they didn’t do. In a situation like that, you can recover, but it requires tact. The end of this story was that they lef…
You just tell them it will take 12 months more. Your the development team. Let them rewrite contracts or lose business. You do not get a bonus for contracts sold or kept.
If necessary someone else will tell them they are not doing there job. Stick to your role.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#187> we hadn’t even received all of the specifications from the customer that we would need to complete the project > And then one of them said “It would be career limiting if the client were to hear this.” > I’d met my responsibility to the company – and the company had threatened me as a result. The author interprets that they were threatened. But really, for whom would it be career limiting? Perhaps I'm being too cha…
If you are a manager, and you make this type of remark, do not get it twisted. You have made a threat, and you have created an adversarial situation that limits your report's ability to trust you. You've telegraphed to them that you're willing to throw them under the bus, and they will remember. If it doesn't feel like you're making a threat - it may feel to you like you're genuinely giving advice - then you have not…
Seeing this and the todolu work advice girl ... I think educating people on how threats are composed and used is something that everyone should understand.
I'm now realized that I've been soft threatened quite a lot.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#188"If no one's asking, they're probably not interested in hearing."
It is odd that the supposed victim in the story didn't seem to invest one penny into oversight of their $60M.
My guess is a longer game was going on that OP never found out about.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#189I mean this story is cathartic, but I don't get what the "rabble rousers" expected to happen. You don't go into a meeting like that to present problems, but to present solutions. And a 12 month delay on a $60 million contract isn't a solution, it's another problem for the sales/client success people. And doing it in front of a group of management, no less - that's like firing a shot across the bow, declaring that the…
Your take is exactly what is wrong with the culture. An existential problem is not a problem because you didn't sell it correctly. You first need to "massage" the individuals to create some kind of coalition. A coalition willing to accept basic facts or responsibility. If a CEO were to be a fly on the wall in this room and overhear it all, they ought to fire every single manager in the room. Quite obviously they are…
I like your take and it resonates a lot with me. But companies splitting up to remove the need of middle management - has that ever happened to anyone? A more realistic advice is probably to get a different job once you see managers start playing their status games and climbing their career ladders while ignoring often uncomfortable facts.
Re: Story: “It would be career limiting..."
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think your comment actually supports the original comment. If what's at stake is a $60M javascript photo-sharing app, then you gotta decide how much you care to massage egos and play the game. If you're literally putting human lives at risk and you think there's a real chance of death, what a petty thing to say, "Oh well they should've just listened! It's a high-stakes game!" Do be clear, this doesn't shift the res…
What a horrible truth, hate to upvote but you may be right. But why is it engineers who must rise to the political occasion?
Everyone should rise to the political occasion. Why is that the engineers should not rise? Politics is how we solve problems without resorting to fists.