Certain articles need a list of "required reading" before reading the article.
You should at least read the "dev ops handbook" before reading this article.
The article should then talk through its points using the book as a reference.
DevOps is broken
181–190 of 363 posts
Re: DevOps is broken
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>the only alternative is to start making CPUs by hand Agreed. For some applications the cloud difference is significant; for many (most?) others though, "Cloud" is just rebrand of "Hosted". And even for more cloudy offerings, while I'm in a very specific and different part of IBM, some of the old timers/architects/powers-that-be keep trying to explain "We had that in 1969 !!!" :-D Agreed also at rewriting of history…
> My dad has been IT director and he chuckles when I talk to him about "new and exciting paradigms" which he of course sees as turning a circle to what they had in 70's and 80's :) As someone with 20+ years in IT, I agree - a lot of these "new and exciting paradigms" are not new at all. My personal favourite is how many large multi-nationals are now building in-house clouds? WTF is the difference between an "in-house…
> WTF is the difference between an "in-house cloud" and a shared-use datacenter from the 1990's?
An in-house cloud sounds like the mainframe installed in the raised floor computer room at the school district office I worked at in the late 90s; of course, the 12 foot long Unisys mainframe was replaced with a Unisys 4U pentium pro box pretending to be a mainframe, and then there was a lot of extra floor space.
If you're running your own 'cloud' in a (shared) colo, I dunno that that's really in-house. I guess it's still 'private cloud' though.
Re: DevOps is broken
#183I have bewilderingly tried to discern why software development continues to grow more and more complex. It wasn’t always like this. There was a time when we talked about languages and OSes and libraries as if they made a difference on how much you could get done with as little people and cognitive load as possible (the claims were very much overrated, but the point was we acted like it mattered). And then it started…
I tried out cloudflare for the first time yesterday using a personal website. Previously I was just using a domain registrar and setting DNS to digital ocean. cloudflare is a very different/complex beast, but I can imagine that the pretty interface alone brings in customers. I don't like this hyper-expansion either, but when you have an army of monkeys on typewriters, well, a lot gets "produced".
To be fair, cloudflare is among the services I will defend forever. Their ddos protection is by far the best on the market.
Re: DevOps is broken
#184I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…
I don't know, every time I see a title split people start saying that's "X's job", you can't do that because it's "y's job", or I don't want to be involved in "Z". Fewer titles can avoid these discussions.
Looks like you already identified the people that should be in those roles.
If they're not doing it or was overlooked for some reason, then that's an issue but not really an argument to not do it.
Re: DevOps is broken
#185I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…
"Sysadmin" got rebranded as "DevOps", because "techsupport" got rebranded as "sysadmin".
glad someone said it. I mean all the CI/CD pipeline are just in the old day *nix/bsd days bash/perl/awk/sed/python/ruby (fill in the blank) scripts. One problem when IT/Software development become more main stream is that everything got another layer of obfuscation especially in corporate cultures and amongst sales and recruiters and managements. Development Operation or pipeline sounds sooo much better bash scripts.
Re: DevOps is broken
#186Part of why I am fed up with this industry is that I no longer know what my role is. It seems that I have to:
* Develop new features
* Fix bugs
* Sit in standup, "alignment" meetings, and any meeting created by a Zoom-promiscuous engineer (let's hop on a call!)
* Reply to dozens of Slack messages per day
* Write documentation
* Develop and maintain the CI/CD pipeline
* Be an expert on Observability (aka Debugging in Production)
* Have Galaxy Brain level knowledge on the entire cloud setup in all environments
And now I am thinking, if being an engineer involves all that, why not just find a gig with pure DevOps and not worry about product development?
Re: DevOps is broken
#187I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…
> DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways.
This is always a dead giveaway that something is a buzzword
Same for rest. Sometimes when people use it, it just means JSON + http requests. Other times it's supposed to be some kind of architectural style
Re: DevOps is broken
#188I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…
DevOps is part of my job description. I was fuzzy on what it meant before, after reading this article, I have no idea what it means. As a general term, it's far too vague, when in practice it seems to just mean that you'll be splitting your time between writing regular application code and writing infrastructure as code. Oh and you get to be on-call.
i'm working on an RFP response that has the word "DevSecOps" sprinkled around here and there. That's an even more subjective and ambiguous term than devops :/
Re: DevOps is broken
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is your definition of Spaghetti Architecture? Netflix had a good SOA that enabled rapid development and had strong cut lines between services, with no way to access the data of a service without going through the service's API. I think that's where most people go wrong. They put a bunch of services in front of a shared database, which means that they don't have to go through a service's API to get to it's data,…
This is really important, and I've gotten a lot of quizzical looks when making this assertion over the years: data is owned by one and only one service. If two pieces of code assert ownership of it by mutating that data or looking past the public encapsulation of that data, then that code is the same service. If you see a queue between two services, that is usually an indication that some ownership is being transferr…
Yeah, services should be formed around the needs of data, and you shouldn't run multiple services in the same image/container just to split the code up. It shouldn't ever be about the code.
Amazon's SOA architecture at least all started out about pulling bits of data spread over hundreds of servers into services that could take advantage of caching.
Re: DevOps is broken
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
My theory is we need to add "software history" to computer science education programs. How many developers whose careers began after 2000 have ever hand written or know the power of a Makefile? I've worked at research labs and major animation studios that back in the 90's the entire infrastructure was fully automated thru Makefiles, and it purred like a well fed cat. There are hundreds of thousands of forgotten perfe…
Very interesting comment. What older software should devs know about? My problem with Make and similar tools is I don't want to learn more ad-hoc syntax to accomplish something nearly trivial. But I don't know if there's any alternative.
I guess as far as other, older software: I'd need to know your interests or field. How I write software has completely changed at least 5 times, and now I'm deep diving on my 6th (docker/k8s) to deliver the same things I was delivering back in the 80's with software development process one. Actually, add 3 more complete re-wiring of how I write code - I forgot working on game consoles: every new console is a complete start from zero how to write, debug, package and ship software, software that is not that much different than was delivered with the last platform and dev process.