The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars • Hacker News Board

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#181

Post by fallingknife » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:06 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #136

bb88 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, the NHTSA should be more proactive on this stuff. But to be fair, drunk drivers kill 28 people a day in this country, or about 10k people per year. 3k people die at signalled intersections every year, or around 8ish per day. While Tesla shouldn't be beta testing their self driving cars on public roads, it's clear that human behavior and existing road design is still vastly worse.

> it's clear that human behavior and existing road design is still vastly worse Is that true? Those human statistics take every human car and driver into account, not just Teslas. I have never seen data that shows self-driving cars anywhere close to human driving capability. If we replaced every car on the road with "self-driving" Teslas, it would be mayhem.

If we replaced every car, it would be an easy problem. The issue is having to replace one at a time while everyone else on the road is still human.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#182

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:07 PM UTC

jlund-molfese wrote: post #139

Schroedingersat wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a train. You're inventing trains but much worse and not available to the poor. Just build a train.

If everyone lives right by the train station that’s fine. What about people in wheelchairs who live in the countryside and prefer to be dropped off at their doorstep? Or someone who can’t drive themself but could use an autonomous car or taxi to go to the hospital in an emergency situation (without waiting a while for the next open train)?

> What about people in wheelchairs who live in the countryside and prefer to be dropped off at their doorstep?

The important thing is to build a system that works for wide masses - even replacing half of individual car transit by rail and bus works wonders for space consumption [1]. The more complex cases - rural people, mostly - can be dealt with later on, e.g. by providing something like a "phone bus" service. Here in Germany, we're experimenting with on-demand buses [3]: they serve the existing station network, but unlike the usual village buses that run every two hours or worse, you can order them like a taxi and use your existing public transport ticket.

Saying "no" by default because a system is not entirely perfect at the beginning is a destructive discussion tactic that only serves those in power.

> Or someone who can’t drive themself but could use an autonomous car or taxi to go to the hospital in an emergency situation (without waiting a while for the next open train)?

Someone in an emergency situation should just be able to call an ambulance. That's what they exist for. Ideally, someone in an emergency situation should also not have to fear going bankrupt (to the tune that this scenario has become a meme in itself [2]).

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparative-efficiency-o...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/utbn5z/a_man_k...

[3] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/landkreismuenchen/landk...

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#183

Post by ericmay » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:09 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #32

prng2021 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes drunk driving is a terrible problem but beta testing software on the open road is not the only option available. It's nothing but irresponsible. Here's one of many: use sensors and AI in the car to detect a drunk person behind the wheel. This is HN so I'm sure readers could spend 10 seconds and think of numerous ways this could be accomplished and many otherideas about what could be done when a drunk driver is de…

You may find it interesting the NHTSA is pushing for breathalizers in cars starting in 2026. Personally I'm more in favor of smart road like technologies where a highway has a mechanical or physical properties to assist self-driving vehicles stay in line with the road. Mostly because a 100% software solution will likely not work, particularly in the midwest and great lakes states during the wintertime. It need not be…

People drink and drive in America because they have no choice. You can’t walk him from a bar, and even if it’s available nobody is paying $40 for an Uber when they can drive their car.

If we want to lower drunk driving incidence rates we need people walking to the bar or taking public transit. It requires us to fix our outdated and asinine transit culture.

All of the technical solutions in the world can’t solve this problem because they’re solving for the wrong thing (safer cars) when we should be solving for reduction in driving.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#184

Post by elif » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:10 PM UTC

prng2021 wrote: post #4

We allow companies like Tesla to jeopardize people's lives while the company beta tests "full self driving" technology, but are scared of allowing proven safe technology like adaptive headlights.

At what point does a "life jeopardize" become a "safety feature" for you? Since 160k FSD beta testers have cost 0 lives, and _human_ drivers in my state kill 16 people per 100k.

The fact is, the vast majority of lives are jeopardized by reckless, unaware, distracted, or impaired... Things which don't apply to FSD.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#185

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:12 PM UTC

JamesBarney wrote: post #123

wheybags wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for fancy sensors and ai - I used an electric scooter rental in Germany recently, and it made me do a reaction speed test on my phone before starting. Super easy.

Are they worried you'll kill someone with your electric scooter?

That was introduced during the Oktoberfest here in Munich, as there had been dozens of injuries and hundreds of people so drunk they got their license revoked on the spot in 2019 [1].

Operators didn't want the hassle of the paperwork involved with drunk drivers, crashes and followup costs, so they agreed with the city on implementing a "latency test" or other scare-offs [2]. Some of the operators already had that voluntarily activated during night time in other cities, some had to implement it from scratch, but I think they will more-or-less keep it in place.

Additionally, the potential for severe injury is way higher with a scooter than it is with a bike. Scooters run faster and are way more sensitive to steering input.

[1] https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article201502060/Nach-Oktobe...

[2] https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/oktoberfest-sperrzone-f...

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#186

Post by fallingknife » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:13 PM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #35

I'd be happy if local and state police just started issuing citations in earnest for misaligned headlights on pickup trucks. 99% of the pickups I come across at night have their low beams pointing straight instead of down at the road. It's so common that it can't be a coincidence that nearly every pickup truck has an illegal headlight configuration. And it isn't due to higher ground clearance, that's just their lame…

Quite a claim with no source. Are you claiming that the manufacturers are making trucks with illegal headlights? Because that seems pretty far fetched. Or that drivers are modifying them? Because that is very rare.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#187

Post by hnbad » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:14 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #171

dominotw wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tell you to not rely on it in their manual. So you still have to check manually.

They tell that about every single safety feature in cars. Reversing cameras usually always have a warning to not rely on the image, even though basically the only way to actually get a proper view what's behind you in a modern car is to get out of the car and go behind it. I imagine it's all about liability.

Looking over your shoulder isn't part of driver's ed in the US? In Germany you'd literally fail your exam if you forget to do that even once before turning. You don't even need to move your upper body, just turn your head to the side and look in that direction and you'll cover most blind spots. They also teach you how to adjust your mirrors and how to tell they're adjusted correctly. They also do a blind spot demonstration.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#188

Post by boppo1 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:14 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #145

prng2021 wrote: post #4

We allow companies like Tesla to jeopardize people's lives while the company beta tests "full self driving" technology, but are scared of allowing proven safe technology like adaptive headlights.

This is because the only place for progress in America seemingly is within yet-nonexistent unregulated areas. As soon as something gets regulated in the US it mostly is doomed to lag decades behind the rest of the developed world (because American policymakers apparently are not fond of updating existing laws/rules and the bureaucracy is not flexible enough, often prioritizing the letter of the law). Of course there…

I was just thinking about this. At some point, it seems like companies that want to innovate will just have to break laws and hope public support for a new, better product gets them off the hook somehow. Sounds crazy, but the thought arrived in the context of "how do we do health insurance better?"

I was picturing something like what we've seen with marijuana, where laws change at the state level while DC looks the other way.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#189

Post by jtc331 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:15 PM UTC

KennyBlanken wrote: post #174

bmitc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's clear that human behavior and existing road design is still vastly worse Is that true? Those human statistics take every human car and driver into account, not just Teslas. I have never seen data that shows self-driving cars anywhere close to human driving capability. If we replaced every car on the road with "self-driving" Teslas, it would be mayhem.

Most of the "teslas are safer than other cars!" stats are severely biased because: 1)Teslas are "luxury" vehicles, much higher-end than the average US car. A base Model S, or average model 3, costs twice the average US car cost. They are as a result significantly better equipped with safety features and have better crash engineering. In terms of driver assistance, the auto industry was pretty belligerent about backup…

One more big one related to your first point: the demographic driving Teslas is hardly a random sampling of the population, which probably impacts driving behavior _but also_ implies the driving done (e.g., where) is probably quite different from the population as a whole.

Re: The US will finally allow adaptive beam headlights on new cars

#190

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 12:16 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #183

bb88 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find it interesting the NHTSA is pushing for breathalizers in cars starting in 2026. Personally I'm more in favor of smart road like technologies where a highway has a mechanical or physical properties to assist self-driving vehicles stay in line with the road. Mostly because a 100% software solution will likely not work, particularly in the midwest and great lakes states during the wintertime. It need not be…

People drink and drive in America because they have no choice. You can’t walk him from a bar, and even if it’s available nobody is paying $40 for an Uber when they can drive their car. If we want to lower drunk driving incidence rates we need people walking to the bar or taking public transit. It requires us to fix our outdated and asinine transit culture. All of the technical solutions in the world can’t solve this…

>People drink and drive in America because they have no choice. You can’t walk him from a bar, and even if it’s available nobody is paying $40 for an Uber when they can drive their car.

List of choices:

1. Not drink alcohol

2. Drink less alcohol, and switch to water at least 1 hour before driving.

3. Pay for a driver

4. Live where you can walk to an establishment that serves alcohol

5. Rent a hotel room nearby

And so on and so forth. Drunk driving is certainly a choice, one made because the perceived or true cost of drunk driving is less than the cost of not driving drunk.