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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#181

Post by noasaservice »

epicureanideal wrote: post #87
bergenty wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don’t appreciate the casual racism in your post.

What's "funny" about your comment is that there is no "white" race.

"Whiteness" was created in a Virginia 1691 law to be "not negroe and not indian". Naturally, that also expanded to be not: Jews, Asians, sometimes not Italians, usually not Irish, and absolutely no indigenous people of any sort.

Defining yourself by what peoples you exclude is the core kernel of racism. And that's what "white" means.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#182

Post by homonculus1 »

forgomonika wrote: post #151
Decker87 wrote: post #23

At this moment in time I think companies can gain a major hiring advantage by simply hiring the best regardless of race/gender. So many large companies are shooting themselves in the foot distorting incentives and saying "no" to people who are the wrong color/gender.

That doesn't work. There are some really amazing people out there that don't fit the typical tech mold of straight cis (white) guy. They don't stick around if they have to navigate a monoculture that doesn't understand that they are constantly throwing out micro-aggressions to people outside of their view of what acceptable behaviour is. Separating your home life from work life only works for so long before you start…

I'm sure you'll be eager to consider that the reverse is also true, except in that case it's the majority of the pool getting aliened by open favoritism toward ethnic minorities and people with bizarre sexual proclivities. If the outcomes of explicit neutrality aren't good enough for you then you'd better start thinking up a new pretense, because people can see through it quite easily and they aren't going to put up with it forever.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#183

Post by kthejoker2 »

bioemerl wrote: post #146
jansan wrote: post #128

If you want racial equity, you have to start at school or even earlier. Get rid of private schools, improve the public school system. Then you can actually get good people from all kinds of backgrounds that are not looked upon as "diversity hires".

> Get rid of private schools There are good steps that can be taken, but objectively harming some students is not the way forward. Improve public schools and try to get more money into the poor regions. Do not erase private ones.

Why not the way forward? Depends on the "some" being "harmed."

This is a systemic problem, systemic measures will be taken, there will be winners and losers.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#184

Post by richbell »

version_five wrote: post #75
chrischattin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also illegal.

I'm not sure about in the US, I know in Canada we've had lots of university faculty positions advertised recently that are explicity for women or some other groups. I don't understand how it's legal but it is.

In Canada the definition of "visible minority" is essentially anyone who isn't a white male.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-service-commission/jobs/serv...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#186

Post by yieldcrv »

version_five wrote: post #75
chrischattin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also illegal.

I'm not sure about in the US, I know in Canada we've had lots of university faculty positions advertised recently that are explicity for women or some other groups. I don't understand how it's legal but it is.

> I don't understand how it's legal but it is.

Are you sure?

Many countries require being harmed by an action and then bringing that action before a court, before anyone ever compares that action to any specific law at all.

So you can see how many actions become de facto legal if nobody ever does that.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#187

Post by Qtips87 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #21
logicalmonster wrote: post #2

According to the Microsoft 2021 Annual Diversity And Inclusion report, 34.9% of employees identified as Asian in the US, far exceeding their overall representation in the US population. Why are Asians doing so well? Why can't we replicate this for other groups? And doesn't trying to hire more of other races imply that mathematically speaking, fewer Asians must be hired and promoted to achieve greater equality? Please…

US immigration policy selects for high earners, the highly educated, the highly skilled and experienced, and the already wealthy. My guess is that there are a lot of immigrants from Asia that fall into any of those camps.

In theory it is, in practice it is not. The intention is to let in talents that the US native population otherwise cannot provide. The reality is that the US tech visa have been heavily abused and let in people that shouldn't be let in.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#188

Post by ryan93 »

bergenty wrote: post #136
epicureanideal wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t appreciate the casual racism in your post.

Every article I’ve ever read on pushback against DEI has been a white male author so it’s just “stats” as the sayings goes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/opinion/race-admissions.h... whats his race?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#189

Post by Jcampuzano2 »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #14
throwawaysleep wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asian parents give a shit whether their kids show up for school.

Down voted for this but it's really a reality. Talk to teachers, if the parent doesn't value school then it takes a truly exceptional kid to direct themselves through it.

Anecdotal of course but I believe this is very much true. I'm Latino if it matters much.

I'm the oldest of three brothers and was the one who was most pushed/expected to excel in education. My parents became a lot more lax on my younger brothers because they thought they pushed me too hard growing up. I think they changed in part because our relationship was very strained as I was growing up and even today isn't anywhere near as close as my two siblings are with my parents.

But on the other-hand, we're all adults now and I am the only one to graduate college and have a career in a typical "high-paying" profession/job. I don't fault my brothers for this and am close with them, but it is pretty stark the difference in career path/"traditional success" between the three of us simply based on this emphasis/value.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#190

Post by Manuel_D »

omegaworks wrote: post #170
Manuel_D wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This results in some people (mainly white men) feeling like they are being left out when they really weren’t the best fit but in the past may have picked over someone else. There would be merit to this line of thinking, if the diversity initiatives came in the form of anonymizing resumes and interviews (which is easier to do with remote interviews). But that's not the case. More often than not, diversity initiative…

>More often than not, diversity initiatives come in the form of quotas or penalties for hiring or promoting too many "non-diverse" people. This is literally not the case for the author. From the article: >I told HR that I had considered it and I believed my recommendation was correct. HR said “OK, then we don’t need to change anything. I just wanted to check that you had considered them.” That's literally all the aut…

Because explicit quotas are illegal, they're often conveyed ambiguously. "You don't need to hire X% of Y group. But hiring X% of Y group would demonstrate inclusivity, which is one of the core company values. And upholding our core company values is crucial to advancement."

Also, as per "Diversity Slating Guidelines" quotas are indeed being used. They require at least one Black or Latin candidate, and one female candidate. If there's only 4 people on the slate, this could mean that 50% of the pool is subject to racial or gender quotas.

There's more context behind Microsoft's diversity initiatives. Hiring managers were given bonuses for hiring diverse applicants. Or conversely, they were penalized for hiring non-diverse applications: https://qz.com/1598345/microsoft-staff-are-openly-questionin...

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