Quiet Quitting • Hacker News Board

Re: Quiet Quitting

#181

Post by treis » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:06 PM UTC

masterof0 wrote: post #14

Boomers look surprised, and I think they fail to see the reality of current times. Decades ago, an university teacher, could afford to buy a home for his family , not too far from where he/she/* worked. Nowadays, even with FAANG salaries you can't buy a decent size home for your family even in a "30 minutes drive" radio from where your offices are. Imagine other professions who are not paid as much. People see throug…

A lot of this is, IHMO, looking back at the past with rose colored glasses:

People look back at home prices but don't account for interest rates. So yes, homes were cheaper for the boomers in the 70s and 80s but they were paying 10%+ interest on those homes. The actual monthly cost isn't much different.

Cities were much cheaper but they were also much more violent. So those people that bought in Harlem for a song in the 70s and have a million+ home today went through some shit. Even today you can get a home basically for free if you're willing to have a crappy home in a shit neighborhood if you want the Boomer experience.

Also, people had to move. Most of those boomers in California that made a bunch on their home moved from somewhere else because homes were cheap in California. People today can repeat that experience. Probably not the "greatest real estate appreciation ever" part but definitely the "cheap home with decent job prospects" part.

Similarly with cost of living. Outside of a couple notable exceptions things like appliances, cars, clothing, etc. are cheaper and (at least arguably) better today than what it was back then. The big differences are health care and education. But even these are a mixed bag.

Re: Quiet Quitting

#182

Post by JAlexoid » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:07 PM UTC

vasco wrote: post #57

ehnto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A term getting around at the moment is "Acting your Wage" which I like a lot better. Employers shouldn't be surprised when people do what they're paid to do.

That attitude is childish at best. If you're not happy with the wage, quit and go get it somewhere else. Employers would feel the pressure of "lack of labor" and wages would rise. Accepting a job and then deciding the wage is not enough for the duties you have to perform after the fact just slows the process down for everyone and usually puts extra work load on your colleagues. I'm assuming of course that you mean wh…

Wait! You signed a contract saying A and you do A, meanwhile there's an "expectation" that you actually do A+B... That is not a healthy expectation.

Imagine if you were a contractor tasked with painting a room. Mid painting the expectation changes to "you're also expected to reinstall window and door trim, and paint it" (at no extra cost and by staying at jobsite longer), but with a remote probability of increased pay later. Or... The customer fires one of your colleagues and tells you that you and one more person must now deliver the job at the same pace.... but with only two thirds of the pay.

Re: Quiet Quitting

#183

Post by JAlexoid » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:11 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #50

neogodless wrote: post #3

It irks me that some people use this term to mean "doing your job, as expected." I would imagine it to mean "doing the absolute smallest amount you can get away with without getting noticed and subsequently fired." Fulfilling my duties but not doing overtime seems like "doing your job" rather than "quiet quitting."

It's pretty well-understood that a company does not function if everyone performs only the duties written on paper. There's even a counterproductive strategy that uses that as the hallmark: "malicious compliance." People aren't robots (if they were, they'd have been automated by now so owners could keep all the wealth by owning all the capital) and the challenges businesses face are too dynamic to survive a script-on…

What the...

No. If your company has to rely on people working extra hours and doing extra work, to actually function... then screw that company.

Imagine if you demanded your carpenter do your plumbing as well, because "as house can't operate without proper plumbing".

Re: Quiet Quitting

#184

Post by cjohnson318 » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

tappdarden wrote: post #157

cjohnson318 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, using the term "millennial" to refer to "kids these days". A lot of millennials are pushing forty, own houses, and have multiple kids now.

To add on: some millennials have kids who are adults. finishing college and starting families of their own.

We're reaching a point where "boomer" and "millennial" lose all meaning and are just catch-all terms for "the olds" and "these kids".

Re: Quiet Quitting

#185

Post by hijinks » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #172

hijinks wrote: post #36

I'm gen X so sort of right in the middle. I consider my generation on of the last of the american dream is attainable for the average worker. I was able to buy a home in my early 20s and climb the wealth ladder. I busted my ass working a 40hr a week job and doing side hustles to make it happen. If you are looking for a home now outside a major city and don't want a 2hr commute things are so slim even if you work your…

Did you have any interest to take on the business from your dad? Would you encourage your children to go into the business if you had?

That's the thing, my grandfather started it and my dad and uncle took it over. My uncle passed years ago due to cancer. So it was just my dad.

My whole life growing up he told me he was making me do all the dirty work for his friends who were in the trades and to drive loader for him so I would go to college and get an office job. He didn't want me to take it over.

My grandfather on the other hand wanted to give me 75k out of highschool in 1997 to start a general contracting company. I'm 43 now and some days sitting in my office, I wish i took my grandfathers advice and did that.

I loved working on computers in the 90s. I was lucky as my mom was a programmer in the late 70s so I always had a computer around the house. That said if one of my kids didn't seem like school was for them I would 100% tell them a good career path is in the trades.

I have a neighbor thats a general contractor and he takes his family on first class flights and staying at night hotels. All because he buys everything on his amex card and takes vacations on points. He lives better then I do and we are about the same age. So ya its a good career option in my opinion.

Re: Quiet Quitting

#186

Post by JAlexoid » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:19 PM UTC

jacobsenscott wrote: post #104

neogodless wrote: post #3

It irks me that some people use this term to mean "doing your job, as expected." I would imagine it to mean "doing the absolute smallest amount you can get away with without getting noticed and subsequently fired." Fulfilling my duties but not doing overtime seems like "doing your job" rather than "quiet quitting."

In the programming world, there is no clear definition of just "doing your job". Two programmers can both work 8 hour days, doing their best work, and one can literally provide 10x or more value than the other. It seems like in programming the only definition of "doing your job" is "do your best". With such a range of skills and loose definitions, it it is almost impossible to tell who is doing their job and who isn'…

In creative fields - it's hard to define, but engineering is not exactly an open ended profession. We as programmers have a clear objective to get to. The ways of getting there are different, but it's akin to asking a portrait painter to paint a portrait - the result isn't a novel impressionist painting.

Re: Quiet Quitting

#187

Post by marvelous » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:25 PM UTC

This article is very ironic: it is written by the CERN's Ombud, who has a lifetime employment contract like all of CERN's management, and probably obtained it at a time when CERN was printing them like hot cakes. Today's reality is much different: the chances of obtaining this contract are very low and mostly depend on older colleagues retiring, otherwise you are limited to a 5 year staff contract. The disconnect between the Ombud and the people she talks about is striking, for example when she describes them as "obviously disoriented" for refusing to get into the career grind.

Re: Quiet Quitting

#188

Post by JAlexoid » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:27 PM UTC

Kon-Peki wrote: post #85

hijinks wrote: post #36

I'm gen X so sort of right in the middle. I consider my generation on of the last of the american dream is attainable for the average worker. I was able to buy a home in my early 20s and climb the wealth ladder. I busted my ass working a 40hr a week job and doing side hustles to make it happen. If you are looking for a home now outside a major city and don't want a 2hr commute things are so slim even if you work your…

> no one wanted to do it because they've heard since they were 8 years old how bad working with your hands are and they should get an office job In my area, youth soccer referees are being offered $50/hr and the age requirement has been lowered to 13 for U8 matches. They still have trouble getting enough people. Every soccer club in the area sends out multiple emails to parents asking them to get their teenagers to g…

That's not a full time job, you know that.... right?

Re: Quiet Quitting

#189

Post by cableshaft » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

workerthrow632 wrote: post #76

matmatmatmat wrote: post #26

It's interesting to see this from CERN, which is essentially an institution that enables young people to work unlimited hours for next to no pay and virtually no chance of ever attaining significant recognition of their work. In my brief time there, it was not uncommon to hear stories of people who had moved there and not even unpacked all of their belongings after a year or more. On the plus side, if you love partic…

> not even unpacked all of their belongings after a year or more. I stopped having any personal effects at work. Purely mercenary. It makes it easier when I get walked out when the C-Suite decides they need higher bonuses.

I once had my temp contract terminated on my way home from work one day.

I was called by the staffing agency halfway back on my commute and they said "Don't go into work tomorrow. They'll mail you your things."

I'm not sure if I ever got those things back (to be fair, it was only like six things).

Also, I was so insulted that they didn't just tell me in person at the end of the day and let me pack up my stuff and take it home with me. But the staffing agency claimed it was the company's policy to do that with contractors.

...after that I stopped bringing much of anything to the office. Currently my office has a ton of crap in it, but it's a home office :).

Re: Quiet Quitting

#190

Post by gsibble » Mon, Oct 10, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #176

gsibble wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now, since the start of inflation, in the last year, the value of a dollar has eroded 13%. Have you gotten a 13% raise just to maintain your cost of living?

Hahahahahahahahaha No. Of course we haven't. Of course we never will. To paraphrase my current CEO: "Cost of living adjustments have never been a part of our pay raises." And also, of course, as a public company they won't cut into their record profits and growth to take care of their employees. To quote Wall Street: "Grow or Die."

How do they expect to fucking keep talent when we can just jump house and make that much more to companies that have adjusted to inflation?