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Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

news.stanford.edu

181–190 of 394 posts

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#181
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except constantly running can’t benefit from time of day pricing. Essentially it needs to be some 15kWh load that only needs to run for 6 hours per day.

If the price changes are large enough, you can just buy an extra board and have them at the best half of the time.

I think you would be better off buying a 2 Tesla power wall to load shift the demand vs 4x as much computer equipment that’s quickly outdated.

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#182
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL. This is classic “virtue signaling.” Your iPhone battery is not even a rounding error on your electricity consumption.

If all iPhones do this it will matter. Charging when energy is plentiful also means that electricity is more likely to come from renewables.

Steve Jobs famously once compared speeding up a boot process by 10 seconds to saving a dozen lives:

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Saving_Lives.txt

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#183
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if the logical conclusion is to invest in convenient workplace charging infrastructure so charging is simple when the car is conveniently parked at work doing nothing and the owner wants a car ready to go home in the evening... > “We encourage policymakers to consider utility rates that encourage day charging and incentivize investment in charging infrastructure to shift drivers from home to work for c…

The logical conclusion is to try to get away from needing to drive to work at all.

Right? Then it becomes trivial to charge at home, during the day (if that really does make an impact).

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#184
post #41
post #17

>We're doing it wrong, according to a new Stanford study Wrong according to what metric? Cost? Raw efficiency? A lot of people are more than willing to give up efficiency so that they don't have to actually worry about finding a station during the day. To say that something is just outright "wrong" based on their personal preference of priorities comes off as unhelpful to me. The solution is simple. Make electricity…

> Wrong according to what metric? Have you read the study ? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-022-01105-7 > you just use natural market forces and the problem fixes itself. Never worked, never will, borderline sounds like a cult following, "The all mighty market will automagically fix it with no human intervention"

I'm not a hardcore free marketeer, but price signals work via human intervention.

At the lowest level it's people plugging things in at specific times to save pennies.

But people can build systems to do this automatically, like the ripple signal that's been used for half a century to turn on water storage heaters.

People can build entire business around building widgets that will help other businesses save money.

The (soylent) green energy market is people.

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#185
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how many work areas have a charging station available easily?

The term "charging station" is hinting at a too big infrastructure. All you need is a power outlet per car. If the car parks for 8 to 9 hours, you don't need a huge amount of power to recharge it.

You need more than just a power outlet per car, with regular 120vac, you pretty much need a breaker and circuit per car, because you shouldn't put two of those on a single circuit, since they'll usually pull up to the 15A rating of the plug, and code restricts you from using more than 20A breaker on a circuit with 15A plugs, so you'll pop the breaker if you've got two 15A loads and they don't communicate to share. It probably makes more sense to get a two or maybe four car charging station per breaker and circuit, and set it for the appropriate amps on the circuit, it can share that appropriately amongst the cars plugged in.

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing 30-70% of the power and adding a bunch of cost doesn't seem like the way forward. Cables exist for a reason. They are the best way to move charge.

These can actually be cheaper than the alternative to install, and get greater use (assuming the standard gets widely implemented). Definately going to be a thing. Loading/waiting areas for taxis and delivery vehicles seem like an early adopter market.

A wireless charger is cheaper than a power outlet?

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#187

Crazy concept: instead of banning cars, forcing electric cars, mandating specific efficiency, etc... we _could_ work towards a world less dependent on personally owned vehicles. And yet, huge companies will continue to just get a pass for forcing people to commute to jobs to sit on a computer all day.

False dichotomy

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#188

It sounds like the real issue is that the time-of-use rates are wrong. Just adjust them to match the actual energy production/demand, and the behavior change will follow. My solar, battery, and car setup automatically adjusts to the rate for power. It sends all my energy to the grid when costs are high and I get the most back, and uses the battery at that time... and then charges the battery when rates are low. Set t…

It seemed obvious to me that time of use rates will have to change when you switch from thermal generation to solar because when you have over/under-provisioning is different.

Thermal plants have excess capacity late at night, early morning. And under during the late afternoon early evening. Solar will have excess during the late mid morning. And nothing in the early evening.

I don't think you need smarties at Standford to figure that out.

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#189
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A very small amount of people really care about "grid impact" enough to change their behavior. They do care about "I can make my electricity cheaper" or "My electricity bill went up".

They don't care until their whole neighbourhood goes dark at 6PM everyday

They still won't care to change. They will complain, yes, but change? No.

Re: Charging cars at home at night is not the way to go: study

#190
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s how we do it in Denmark. We have hourly prices on electricity, so for me it’s cheaper to start the dishwasher outside peak hours. In some areas they are experimenting with car chargers hooked up to this electricity price info, so it charges when it’s cheap.

Weirdly, the latest iPhone + iOS pops a dialog box saying it will do this. // Weird given tiny amount of energy for your iPhone. But perhaps reasonable in aggregate.

Nice. I’ve also wanted my phone to tread water and not add charge while I’m driving.

Dumb dumb to use a gasoline engine’s generator to charge it, but I don’t want it to go dead either.

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