Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B • Hacker News Board

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#181

Post by rvz » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

tester756 wrote: post #124

p-e-w wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is essentially nothing. Imagine an individual, caught committing an illegal act of this magnitude for the third time , being fined 1.45% of their annual pre-tax salary, with no other consequences. Speeding tickets are costlier than this in many jurisdictions.

>Which is essentially nothing. Holy shit. Is it some sign of being on HN too much? Sure, 1.45% is small, because % is shitty at representing the real value at this point at the end of the day it's fucking $4 000 000 000 It's year salary of 2200 well paid engineers That's industry-changing level of possibilities

Google makes twice more than Facebook in their annual profits and still Facebook can afford to pay the FTC's record fine and still continues with collecting more PII and violating the privacy of their users. $4B is essentially nothing and instead it should be the minimum fine for these companies.

Repeated violations from them should be in the significant multi-billions, much higher than this generous discount of a fine that the EU is asking for. This proves that they will do it again and won't change until the fines get higher than $10B.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#182

Post by moffkalast » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #179

moffkalast wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android should damn well ship with multiple app stores and multiple browsers, not just the GoogleApprovedTM app store where they ban anyone that looks at them wrong or thinks about blocking ads for more than 2 miliseconds. The exclusive app stores are both iOS and Android's greatest strengths and failings at the same time. Apple is arguably the far worse offender there too. If there was an alternative app store on iO…

The way this EU ruling is setup, they want your Android not only ship with other stores, but allow sales with exclusively those stores as well. Just like the case with Chinese phones now - I have bunch of people in my family angry because they bought Huawei and they now can't use their banking apps because it's an incompatible build of Android that requires publishing in a Huawei AppStore to work. That's worse. That'…

> because it's an incompatible build of Android

sigh

I guess it's impossible to go 5 min without somebody wrecking the ecosystem. I don't understand how they can even manage to be incompatible, it's fucking Java, or more commonly these days just a wrapped PWA.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#183

Post by rr888 » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

asadlionpk wrote: post #64

EU has decided to make a living out of fining the tech companies regularly.

They continuously fined the banks until they're all nearly bankrupt. I guess tech is next now.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#184

Post by pmx » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

Kerbonut wrote: post #151

woeh wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was pleased to see recently that a couple of different brands at my local DIY store had interoperable batteries. I bought a small lawnmower which now uses the same battery as a cordless drill from another brand. The brands that joined are listed on their marketing site[0]. Edit: One of the companies has a slightly less obnoxious website which also lists brands[1] [0] https://www.powerforall-alliance.com/en/#technol…

I’m glad we’re finally working towards standard batteries for power tools. I have to say that website is terrible.

It plays absolute havoc with the browser history, how did they think that was a good idea?

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#185

Post by endisneigh » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

hellisothers wrote: post #156

wara23arish wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no way to delete safari from iphones

I know it’s a nuance but Apple doesn’t license its OS to other manufacturers. So while Google dictates “if you use the Android OS you must bundle Chrome”, Apple isn’t dictating terms like that to another manufacturer.

Technically Google isn’t really making anyone use Play Store, either. They’re free to use AOSP and bundle their own set of apps, no?

In fact, I’d argue these rules the EU enforces are counter productive. Manufacturers should fork android and band together and create their own App Store. Google will either cede their position or we’ll have a viable, growing third ecosystem.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#186

Post by tmoravec » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

timmg wrote: post #168

tmoravec wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pretty good track record when it comes to consumer rights Are you sure EU has "pretty good track record" with these fines of Google, FB, et al.? If anything, I'd say the EU puts a mild theatre every now and then, and gives the US giants a free pass otherwise.

> and gives the US giants a free pass otherwise. Probably because I work in tech in the US, but that has not been my view. What was the fine that the EU put on VW for intentionally cheating on emissions standards? And how does that compare with the many fines Google has gotten?

IIRC it was mainly about cheating in the US, no? The US definitely gave VW huge fines. And jail time for an executive.

Not that it's relevant to Google...

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#187

Post by 6510 » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

Normille wrote: post #136

beAbU wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that I agree with this statement. Many of the packs that I've seen the inside of has balancing circuitry included. Also worth considering these packs are charged separate from the tool. So this means the tool cannot control the charge rate etc. Lastly, based on my luddite eyes, the difference between makita, milwaukee, bosch, dewalt and ryobi batteries seem to me to only be a different keying in the plas…

>Lastly, based on my luddite eyes, the difference between makita, milwaukee, bosch, dewalt and ryobi batteries seem to me to only be a different keying in the plastic mating parts The fact that you can buy adaptors to allow one brand's batteries to be used on another brand's tools would seem to back up your theory. However, with the adaptors costing around £20 each and being produced by no-brand 'warranty voiding' un…

I much enjoyed my mobile phone with AA batteries. I had a pocket full of charged ones but if they ran out every corner store sold them. (They drained pretty quickly eventho it had a led display but replacing them was as fast as reloading a gun)

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#188

Post by mritun » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

Extremely interesting point in this ruling that I have never seen before and I guarantee is sending shockwaves to the boardrooms is the definition of market. In this ruling EU chose to define the market as “Android phone manufacturers all over the world except China”.

Of course that definition is very peculiar. I was doubtful that it would stick but apparently it did.

This is fascinating that a regulator can define market as “users of YOUR_PRODUCT excluding all competitors you thought AND across the world EXCEPT the very place where everything is made”.

Now that it has stuck, it would change the dynamics of business. It started with tech but its going to trickle down :)

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#189

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

markdestouches wrote: post #103

robertlagrant wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that giving the power to overseas nations to criminalise and incarcerate US citizens has no downsides.

You are already eligible for punishment for crimes committed in foreign countries. I don't see how this makes things any different.

Some crimes, yes. If it doesn't make things different, then there's nothing to change. If it does change things, then that's because the US would be allowing it for non-crimes.

Re: Google loses EU appeal and is fined a record $4B

#190

Post by layer8 » Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 3:42 PM UTC

robomartin wrote: post #164

Does the money in these cases go to government? Not sure how it is in the EU. This is one of the aspects of government-based fines I dislike. The money should go to the people, the victims, not government. They go after a company that may have damaged consumers and then proceed to grab the fine instead of giving it to the people who were the actual victims of the transgression.

The money will go into the EU budget, which for the most part benefits EU citizens. And everyone will benefit from Google having to change (or already having changed) their agreements with device manufacturers.

It’s like when you pay a parking fine, the money doesn’t go to the specific people inconvenienced or endangered by your wrong parking, it goes into the municipal budget.