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Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

economist.com

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Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#181

Post by buildsjets »

coryrc wrote: post #106
alistairSH wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Whether it's intentional or not, voting in the US is not always easy for several reasons... 1 - No national election day holiday, so wage-earners often have to forgo income to vote. 2 - Long lines, too few voting stations, exacerbate point 1 3 - Inconsistent voting laws as you cross municipal boundaries (mostly state to state). 3b - particularly WRT mail-in/absentee ballots. 4 - c…

Then why does Washington state also have low voter participation? Nine of that applies to a Democratic-run state with mail-in-only voting.

I have anecdotally heard from some Republicans in Washington that they do not bother to vote, especially in non-presidential election years, as they feel that a Democrat will win the election anyway.

This is visible in county-level voting rates. The counties east of the Cascade mountains tend to be more conservative than the counties west of the Cascades, or areas surrounding metros like Spokane, and they also tend to have lower voter participation rates.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/15/where-peo...

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#182

Post by JumpCrisscross »

gitrog wrote: post #147
pochekailov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q1: Yes, there is. Once a professional politician sees more activity from renters, they will include the renter's interests into their agenda Q2: Yes, obviously there is a positive correlation. This is exactly why renters need to fight: stakes are against them. Current status quo is in favor of homeowners; it will not be possible to change it while being passive. Renters and homeowners have conflict of interests, the…

I'm sorry but your answer to Q1 is extremely naive. There is no way that activity from renters will even remotely approach the power of those who own property in politics. The latter group can lobby and make campaign donations, the former can't exactly... The best thing you'll get is a campaign promise to do something about it, but not much action. The only way something will actually be done about it is if the effec…

> no way that activity from renters will even remotely approach the power of those who own property in politics

Can speak to New York politics. Tenants' associations have massive sway. I've canvassed elections where a single building's tenants' association could predictably swing the outcome.

They also ally with developers when advantageous, e.g. to continue building housing stock. (Their divergent interests explain much of our affordable housing policies' idiosyncrasies.) This combination of activism and pragmatism beats the well-funded candidate every time in local politics because their elections are decided by margins of hundreds or even tens of votes.

> latter group can lobby and make campaign donations, the former can't exactly

Donations, at the local level, are a threat to incumbents through enabling primary challengers. And tenants' associations absolutely lobby. The problem is renters in most cities are some combination of disorganized, disengaged and/or ideological to a dogmatic degree.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#183

Post by dfxm12 »

pochekailov wrote: post #20
danielrpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are free and able to vote but won't do it, it's hard for me to feel too much pity for your situation. I started voting when I was 16 (my birth country allows that) and voted on every single election until I immigrated to the US - and then voted on every US election since becoming a citizen.

Haha I am still not a citizen, so can't vote myself. I was trying to encourage my friends, but they were often too busy. They would vote for Hillary (or even for Trump), but never for a local mayor. Sometimes I am considering running myself for a local government after getting my citizenship, with the only goal: drop housing price at my city for at least 70%. Once achieved - retire from politics :).

I've got the political party for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_Is_Too_Damn_High_Party

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79KzZ0YqLvo

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#184

Post by Loughla »

ghaff wrote: post #97
mikkergp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious on the data on this. I mean difficulty voting certainly is a major narrative and passes the smell test but the survey in this article suggests 3/4’s of non voters say it is easy to vote: https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/561886-whos-not-voting-... This is however contrasted by the confusing bit that not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengageme…

> not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement. And it seems likely they didn't make the (often minimal) effort to get registered because of apathy or political disengagement.

Let's have this thought experiment played out.

What did it look like for you to get registered to vote?

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#185

Post by fezfight »

datacruncher01 wrote: post #132

It's a simple problem, we turned housing into an investment. Now everyone who owns a home is incentivized to ensure their investment is maximized and that results in a lot of NIMBYism. The simple solution is we need more housing in cities and suburbs. How we get there is an exercise that's taken on by local housing authorities and they are not incentivized to solve the problem. That's because they work for voters who…

So I think folks overlook just how wealthy certain investors are when they propose the fix is to just build new properties. Those will also get snapped up by investors. To fix the problem, investing in housing needs to be either banned or made very unattractive. You only need one house to live in.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#186

Post by ryukafalz »

api wrote: post #157
ryukafalz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say a non-exclusionary city would work just as well. Tokyo is the most expansive city I can think of and they've managed to keep prices down. Still, fighting to make US cities more livable is a laudable goal.

It's a laudable goal but I have serious doubts about its achievability in cities that are already overpriced. Every single incentive leans in the direction of keeping prices high since not only would lower prices cost homeowners money but would also possibly cut into tax revenues and could financial ruin people who purchased under these high price regimes. It's a bit of a ratchet. Once the prices go high, it's very h…

>Every single incentive leans in the direction of keeping prices high since not only would lower prices cost homeowners money but would also possibly cut into tax revenues and could financial ruin people who purchased under these high price regimes.

Not really. The way out is higher density. What we care about isn't land price, it's housing price - in other words, how much does it cost for people to get as much housing as they need. Lowering housing costs and rising land costs are perfectly compatible if you don't artificially restrict lots to 1 unit as most of the country has done.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#187

Post by ben7799 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #161
kindatrue wrote: post #151

I just think about this letter to the Atherton (median sold home price: $7.6M) Mayor and City Council: === Subject line: IMMENSELY AGAINST multifamily development! I am writing this letter to communicate our IMMENSE objection to the creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton … Please IMMEDIATELY REMOVE all multifamily overlay zoning projects from the Housing Element which will be submitted to the state in July…

What gets me is the dramatic language. I don't think home values would "massively" decrease with a few multi-family residences in the area. What's funny too is that even if they did, the Andreessen family is one that could easily afford to eat the loss. Meanwhile no one blinks twice when home prices increase 20% over just a few years and put housing out or reach of even more families.

If they have 4 properties on the street they are likely renting them and just trying to create barriers in the market for someone else to be able to rent units. Multi-family units in that area would probably reduce their ability to raise the rents on their 4 properties.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#188

Post by kmeisthax »

rhacker wrote: post #139
pochekailov wrote: post #14

Nothing will change while the homeowners have more political power than the renters. Even in the cities where the renter population is bigger than the homeowners, such as in Seattle, half of the votes come from people of > 65 years old (all of whom are homeowners, likely more than one home). Young people simply won't vote at all. There is very little incentives for the young people to vote. Even if you cancel all the…

Let's multiply Seattle housing count by 3. I'm sure you'll still be able to get from point a to point b in a day (if you survive the drive).

[laughs in Phoenix]

In all seriousness, no. The way you multiply housing count is by making buildings taller and closer together, not by spreading them further out. This is how we used to build cities before cars and roads ruined them.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#189

Post by ghaff »

Loughla wrote: post #184
ghaff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not being registered was the biggest reason people didn’t vote, above apathy and political disengagement. And it seems likely they didn't make the (often minimal) effort to get registered because of apathy or political disengagement.

Let's have this thought experiment played out. What did it look like for you to get registered to vote?

Well, I get a form every year from my town to confirm my particulars. I sign it and send it back. I guess if I weren't registered I'd go down to the town hall and do so. If I couldn't for some reason, I assume I could call the town clerk, and they'd send me a form in the mail. When I go into Cambridge around election time, I frequently see various tables set up to register people.

Obviously registering (and voting) is harder for some people than others but registering to vote is not, in general, an arduous process.

Re: Housing is at the root of many of the rich world’s problems (2020)

#190

Post by lotsofpulp »

sfe22 wrote: post #169
idkyall wrote: post #122

Housing in the US has gotten to where it is due to horrible laws effectively allowing total tax avoidance for landlords. Take some investment property. You buy it at some basis price, let's say 500k. You rent it out for 15k a year. Each year you can offset your rental income against deprecation of the property and property taxes - meaning, you pay no income tax on your rental income. ~30 years later, you've deprecate…

It is easy to pick an example like this to show the “bad” sides. But what is the alternative? If people had to pay inheritance tax on their family home, how many could not afford such a tax bill and would have to get rid of their family home to please the tax man. Regarding the cost basis rest that is so people can upgrade their house without having to pay a tax bill. This is just deferring the tax not avoiding it. W…

> Without this it would be much harder to get a bigger house once you have kids. Most people would have a harder time moving and removing this would lower our quality of life.

If the goal is to help people consume more of , then give them cash.

Giving assistance via tax rules is a way to discriminate who gets to benefit from government subsidized while maintaining plausible deniability. It also helps obfuscate the costs.

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