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Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

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181–190 of 449 posts

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#181
The jury's task in a criminal trial is to determine guilt or innocence based on the uncontested facts and the evidence (In the USA, I gather they can also recommend a verdict). That doesn't leave a lot of room for the jury to decide which laws ought to be enforced.

I suppose it's reasonable for a jury to decide that a prosecution should not have been brought, even if the criminal act can be shown to have occurred. I don't know what other body is in a position to make that determination, so I guess that in some kind of "natural law" view, returning an innocent verdict when the facts say guilty, is morally permissible.

But I'm not OK with juries deciding what the law is, or just completely ignoring the law. My experience (IANAL) is that jurors are interested in the judicial process, assess evidence carefully, and try hard to return a "correct" verdict.

I haven't served on a real jury; I did serve on a mock jury, in a mock trial for training advocates (barristers). It was a date-rape trial, and the "evidence" was equivocal. Interestingly, although all the jurors were sincere and honourable, the jury split male/female on the verdict (I'm a male, and I came down on the male side of the split).

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland comes very close We very much don’t. Public proposals have to go through multiple rounds of deliberation, cooling down, revision and supermajority popular approval before becoming law.

And also, from my understanding a local Commune doesn't have the power to overrule national laws locally. Which means that when a short majority of racists sets up bans related to muslim cults as happened a few years ago, a local municipality can't overrule that and say all faiths and buildings and clothings are welcome. Is my understanding correct?

> a local Commune doesn't have the power to overrule national laws locally

Yes, federal law has general supremacy.

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t try to get out of jury duty. Someone’s life is on the line. Suck it up and do your civic duty.

I believe jury duty is an awful way to decide justice and it shouldn't exist. Other countries manage without it just fine. In my opinion it's your civic duty to get out of it and not support it.

Examples of other countries that don't use jury systems and have better outcomes?

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#184
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they can vote equally, there's no guarantee that minority populations will have the numbers to protect themselves from the tyranny of the majority. We haven't even gotten to the "equal access to voting" part here in the States yet, so we have a long long road before we get to the "voting is a good tool for minorities to protect themselves" phase.

The population of blacks in south was pretty large tho. In some states they had majority. The violence was to keep them away from power.

For sure, but that's definitely not universally the case today.

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#185
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes this is relatively easy ("you left blood with your DNA at the scene") Not so easy when you realize that DNA labs are shockingly prone to making type II errors.

And other problems with sampling: There’s the famous case of the “Phantom von Heilbronn”, where the same DNA was found on 40 unrelated crime scenes in multiple countries. In the end, it was found to belong to a worker in the factory that made the swabs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_of_Heilbronn

There was hopeless alcoholic in San Hoser who was arrested for murdering a businessman in Palo Alto. Turned out the same paramedic that helped take him to the hospital earlier in the day also was called to the scene of the murder. Some how DNA from hopeless drunk guy ended up under the fingernails of the victim.

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why downvoted. This is true.

Eh, not really. Rule 606 of the Federal Rules of Evidence prohibits a juror from testifying “about any statement made or incident that occurred during the jury’s deliberations; the effect of anything on that juror’s or another juror’s vote; or any juror’s mental processes concerning the verdict or indictment.” [0] Without testimony, how would you make the case for perjury? You can’t force the juror to incriminate the…

> Without testimony, how would you make the case for perjury?

You’re almost certainly going to be asked about your ability to make a decision on the basis of the law, and solely the law, during voir dire. If you say yes and then go on to nullify, you perjured yourself.

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#187

I wonder what portion of jurors know what jury nullification is? I've always thought I could simply utter those words and get out of any jury duty. Not that I would, I would love to serve on a jury. I also wonder how many HN readers would be allowed on a jury?

I wasn’t trying to get out jury duty, but knowing my juror rights had me excused. When the lawyers went around the room asking questions, one of the questions was something along the lines of “will you uphold the law as the judge describes it”. 40 odd people leading up to me all said yes, and then I said “maybe”. I was asked to step outside to discuss my answer. I pretty much said “I know my rights as a juror and if…

Surely this defeats the whole point of jury nullification? Yo should have said yes and then voted your conscience no?

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#188
post #48

Now, we need to pay attention to Presidents, DoJ Attorneys, and District Attorneys who pick and choose which laws to enforce, based upon their politics. It's interesting how they aren't getting charged for those actions.

They aren't because it's the whole idea behind the separation of the executive from the legislative power.

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe jury duty is an awful way to decide justice and it shouldn't exist. Other countries manage without it just fine. In my opinion it's your civic duty to get out of it and not support it.

Examples of other countries that don't use jury systems and have better outcomes?

Not sure how you'd define a metric for "better outcome" to be honest

Re: Man arrested for promoting jury nullification wins federal case

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe jury duty is an awful way to decide justice and it shouldn't exist. Other countries manage without it just fine. In my opinion it's your civic duty to get out of it and not support it.

Examples of other countries that don't use jury systems and have better outcomes?

As far as I know vast majority of countries in Europe don't use a jury system and are doing quite fine. Which was what GP stated, that they are managing quite fine without it. Not that they have better outcomes.
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