Simple question. Who do you trust your data with? 1. A company in your own country which got marketshare mostly because of legal reasons and government interference. 2. A company which got marketshare by building products that people loved all over the world, has the smartest people working for them and have generated more value than the vast majority of the companies that existed previously in the world combined.
I'd agree with the implication here, if it weren't for the fact that the company on #2 would be _legally compelled to spy on me or my countrymen at the whim of 3 letter agencies_.
That rubs some people, such as I, the wrong way. I wonder why :)
> We are capable of doing that ourselves. Then do it.
You typed that silly reply on an operating system created by a European. You don't think we can host the shit out of that OS in Europe? I think you're just butt hurt because someone said something bad about the greatest country in the whole world that you know of.
I typed my reply on an OS created by Americans, but that's entirely irrelevant.
It's not about just installing Linux on a box, plugging in an Ethernet cable and calling it a day. We're talking about cloud providers here. You need to create something on the scale of AWS and Azure if you want to be taken seriously. Hetzner and OVH aren't going to cut it.
Pretty sure EU countries cannot in fact (in general) demand personal data of anyone from EU companies without due process. If you can find law to the contrary, let me know.
The warrant is due process.
The US specifically passed the law to bypass due process.
If you think a warrant should apply from an outside jurisdiction imagine Mississippi issuing a warrant to arrest a Californian abortion doctor.
I don't think it's reasonable that I'm paying more than my share of taxes for the defense capabilities that allows Europe free access to a stable world market and roughly rules based international order that underpins the export economy of Germany in particular. If Europe would fix that, I'd feel a lot worse about the spying.
Complete and utter non-sequitur but I'll humour you. I never understood American magical thinking that blames Europe for US military spending. In the end, if you want to cut military spending, you can. Regardless, you're the hegemon. I don't accept that you don't benefit from that position.
I don't think it is a non-sequitur. The spying is part of the overall defense structure that enables the German export economy to function.
EDIT: It's like saying "This thing you're giving me that allows my whole economy to function, I don't like the consequences of how you're doing it."
If you store data in your own country with non-American companies you're protected by your country's judicial system. If you use an American company or American-based company you're subject to illegal spying from the NSA or extra-judicial warrants from the CLOUD Act (which compels Americans to apply American law outside the US).
I am all for a free and open internet. If you want to connect to a computer in Russia or United States, that is ok, think about what happens to your data, if you care about that, or don't. But here we are talking about whether the German government should use hosting centers, for their governmental software, they know are accesible to US intelligence services. The answer to that is: Of course not.
you are correct a foreign government should not rely on another foreign government for government related technologies, but the reason this even went to court is because one company couldn't compete with another for contracts so they played the legal card if i understood the summary correctly. This shows there's a lack of technological capability/capacity within the EU asif its actual rocket science to host computed services. Aslo do you think about your data? because this is a US service and if remember correctly its hosted on M5 both US services. so you using it shows you aren't thinking about your data because this site is a data trove upvotes, comments, posts, etc. The US government could easily subpoena for all your data and cookies related to this site and build a profile.
And slowly but surely the tidal wave of the consequences of GDPR versus the CLOUD Act come into view. It will take many years to of delays and fretting (due to the dependence on US clouds) but fundamentally the current legal position is that GDPR is fundamentally incompatible with any personal data transfer to the USA, that's how Google Analytics keeps getting banned too. At some point this will all come to a head an…
There is no tidal wave, Telekom partnered a long time ago with Microsoft for an EU only azure offering and it was sacked quickly because the demand from public procurements where too low since those largely require on-prem solutions.
Yeah wondering about the consequences. By this logic almost every non-EU Saas would be forbidden. For sure Stripe is also not allowed, huge amount of customer data in US hands.
This is about getting qualified in comunal/state procurement and not general public business.
As far as I understand the reasoning is that the accepting of a bid of on of the companies in not allowed because they don't comply with the GDPR law. Although it was filed by a competing company it theoretically would mean according to this judge cloud hosting is not in line with GDPR. In that line, wether you are a governmental organisation or company doesn't matter if they decide to enforce it as such.
No, because Germany doesn't have that big of an IT space. Aerospace and automotive would be good sectors to hit back with because they are more relatively important to Germany as IT is for the US.
So you're essentially admitting that this is about revenge because Germany cares about its citizen's privacy and due process.
I'm saying that if Europe decides it wants to block off parts of its economy, the US would be perfectly justified in doing the same (to everyone's detriment).
I could imagine a US based law that banned the sale of any durable goods produced by a company headquartered in a country that still got more than 5% of its power from lignite coal due to a strong climate commitment. That's tailored basically only to impact Germany. Is that fair?