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The Global Cost of Corrosion

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Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#181

Post by jandrese »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #146
hadlock wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche started galvanizing their bodies in the 1970s, VW started in the 1980s, Japan only started galvanizing their bodies in export markets, in response to the germans, and only recently (last 15 years) have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

I feel like that is a self-perpetuating cycle. Japanese carmakers build cars to rust out in half a decade and thus nobody wants to buy old rustbuckets thus the carmakers don't bother to build them to last.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#182

Post by [deleted] »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #146
hadlock wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche started galvanizing their bodies in the 1970s, VW started in the 1980s, Japan only started galvanizing their bodies in export markets, in response to the germans, and only recently (last 15 years) have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

[deleted]

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#183

Post by xyzzy123 »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #146
hadlock wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche started galvanizing their bodies in the 1970s, VW started in the 1980s, Japan only started galvanizing their bodies in export markets, in response to the germans, and only recently (last 15 years) have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

There's a huge export market though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_used_vehicle_export...

I read that something like 60% of cars registered in NZ are Japanese imports.

IMHO Japanese used car exports have a lot of the characteristics of "dumping" (in trade terms) but because there is no local vehicle manufacturing in most of the places they end up, nobody complains.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#184

Post by carlmr »

ByThyGrace wrote: post #105
hammock wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is an important issue. People keep talking about recycling, but much more important than recycling is just being able to use a thing for longer before you are even thinking about recycling it. Reduce, reuse, recycle. In that order

There is also a 0th R-word in that truism, which is "Refuse".

Refuse is funny because depending on how you pronounce it, it might not fit well.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#185

Post by Ralo »

hristov wrote: post #8

This is an important issue. People keep talking about recycling, but much more important than recycling is just being able to use a thing for longer before you are even thinking about recycling it. Japanese automakers did the world a great favor when in the 80s and 90s they made much longer lasting cars and made longevity and resale value an important consideration in the purchasing decision. They did this mostly by…

Owning a 1994 Toyota pickup, this truck has been argued as one of the toughest trucks ever made. However, they rust. Badly.

It's usually the frame, starting from the inside where it collects dirt and water absorbs into it where it won't evaporate and will stay in there damp for months.

Cutting and welding patches onto a frame isn't the biggest deal, and you can install drain holes with places to spray cavity wax coatings.

Once it's rusty inside, you're gonna have a battle. It really needs to be coated from day and then maintained.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#186

Post by hinkley »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #107
hinkley wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famously, 1990's Mitsubishi and Subaru vehicles can basically rust down to the frame before the drivetrain stops functioning. And they don't wait long to start on the former.

Interesting. Mine is a 2004 wrx and getting full of holes, but mechanic keeps assuring me drive train is solid and perfectly safe to drive.

I'm not confident enough on when that era ended to say it magically ended in 2000, just that it hadn't ended by late enough in the 90's to use a big fat brush and say "the 90's". The closest I've been to a Mitsubishi or Subaru maven is 2 degrees of separation.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#187

Post by rsync »

t_mann wrote: post #175

Btw, since this is a common misconception: the cost for repairing / replacing corroded metal actually increases GDP. It's not clear from the article what they mean by 'costs' (they could also mean how many other goods weren't produced because of corrosion damage, which would be lost GDP), but that's something to be aware of.

... came here to say this.

I have spent so much more money on stainless and galvanized parts and taken many expensive precautions, followed expensive building practices, etc. due to rust.

This was increased economic activity.

Not saying it was morally positive but it certainly increased GDP ...

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#188

Post by JohnBooty »

jopsen wrote: post #158
JohnBooty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyway, O&M is the problem for the guy trying to get the next decade's budget approved This is why democracy, while far better than the alternatives, still absolutely sucks. It's a system explicitly designed to be short-sighted. There is massive disincentive to produce systems and infrastructure that will actually work some distance into the future. The only incentive for politicians is either (a) merely look like th…

> ...democracy... It's a system explicitly designed to be short-sighted. It's not explicitly designed for that. It's designed to avoid concentration and abuse of power, peaceful transition of power, and to create some level of fairness. Democracy wasn't designed to produce the best society or the most wealthy society. Democracy was designed to avoid dictators/kings and other really bad things :) That said, we often s…

   It's a system explicitly designed to be short-sighted.
I'm not sure what else we'd call a system where elected officials have zero incentive to do anything other than look good for their re-election campaign in a few years.

Clearly, many politicians have gone above and beyond that and accomplished useful things. But there is zero incentive baked into the system for them to do so.

   Democracy was designed to avoid dictators/kings and other really bad things :)
It's good at that when implemented well, though most aren't.

Generally it seems you wind up with oligarchs/corporations effectively owning politicians unless there is an extreme level of vigilance, etc.

   But experience with communism/central-planning, suggests 
   that maybe it's best to optimize for the short term. At 
   least that works, and produces results in the meantime.
This is a false dichotomy. Clearly there are things that benefit from a short-term, MVP-style, iterative approach.

There are also clearly things that benefit from a longer view: climate change, infrastructure, etc.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#189

Post by s1artibartfast »

jandrese wrote: post #181
s1artibartfast wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>have been galvanizing all their bodies domestic and import. This is because there's basically no market for used cars older than 5 years in Japan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.picknbuy24.com/amp/column_1...

I feel like that is a self-perpetuating cycle. Japanese carmakers build cars to rust out in half a decade and thus nobody wants to buy old rustbuckets thus the carmakers don't bother to build them to last.

It is a actually a legal and insurance issue in Japan. The costs are not tied to the quality of the vehicle. If it costs more to recertify a perfectly functional used vehicle than lease a brand new one, it makes sense to opt for new one.

Re: The Global Cost of Corrosion

#190

Post by justinator »

justinator wrote: post #126
mattnewton wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it reuse? Reduce - don’t buy another car, reuse - keep using your car, or buy a used car, recycle - sell your old car for scrap.

Perhaps we should add, "Reconsider" as in, "Reconsider purchasing the item, when it's not needed, or a better alternative exists".

Thanks for the downvotes for simply openly suggesting something fairly benign. A real vibrant and healthy community we have here.
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