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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#181

Post by baron816 »

smugma wrote: post #134
photochemsyn wrote: post #10

Realistically an Amazon-wide union is the only way Amazon workers are going to get decent wage increases. If the USA is going to allow manufacturers to outsource the majority of well-paid (~$30/hr avg) manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China, without having any cross-border capital flow penalities (neoliberal globalism in a nutshell), then the major employers like Amazon and Walmart are going to have to double their w…

Amazon has significantly increased wages. They were at the forefront of the $15 wage, more than double the federal minimum wage. I think at the time Walmart was at $10 or $11. I live in very liberal SF but outside of my bubble, I hear people complain that it’s not possible to hire Nannies/housecleaners/employees anymore when Amazon and Starbucks pay $18/hr. Seems like the answer is easy: pay them more or make the job…

Yes, a big chunk of the labor shortages in hospitality, child care, etc. we’ve seen the last two years is a direct result of Amazon hiring lots and lots of people. And as shitty as the conditions of those jobs may be, they’re often still better than where they’re coming from. Sticking labels to boxes and moving them around a warehouse all day may still be better than dealing with handsy bar hounds or screaming children.

I’m not here to say that Amazon is doing a great job and we should all be singing Jeff Bezos’s good graces. But I will say that unionization does come with a cost that is borne not by Amazon’s executives or their shareholders, but on everyone who could want to work at Amazon but can’t because their jobs are more scarce, and by everyone who buys things from retailers (Amazon or not) in the form of higher prices.

Unionists like to talk about how the labor movement provided a lot of basic protections for workers and the 40 hour work week. What they like to talk less about is American unions’ frequent associations with organized crime, it’s history of racism and sexism, all of the environmental bills it has fought against. I could go on.

A union-free Amazon has driven up wages for workers throughout the economy. And it has helped keep prices low for everyone else so that even if you don’t earn as much as a Amazon warehouse worker nor shop at Amazon, you can still afford many basic necessities. So yes, I’m saying we should be singing the good graces of competition.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#183

Post by briHass »

koolba wrote: post #57
yardie wrote: post #23

> By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are authorizing the ALU to speak on your behalf. Yeah, they were great at listening before. Also, where are these unions where the people in it aren't the people it represents. Recently, a school board election ad, "we have to stop the teachers union and start listening to teachers." Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers?

> Well, who the hell is in the teachers union if not teachers? Professional bureaucrats. Teachers unions in public schools are the worst. They hold our childrens’ futures hostage and get paid out by politicians buying votes, who pass the bill to the next generation.

Not to mention that most state/local teachers unions are branches of the NEA/AFT, two of the largest unions in the country. Also, two of the largest political contributors, to strictly left-leaning politicians. Neither are shy about admitting that they support Democrat policies exclusively.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#184

Post by Retric »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #144
Retric wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition means higher prices aren’t an easy fix.

Competition also means non-union employers will dominate the market. You can’t have it both ways.

It doesn’t need to be. Giant companies that threat their workers worse than average face much stronger unionization efforts.

Which pushes markets to increased efficiency rather forcing working conditions into a race to the bottom.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#185

Post by kolinko »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #174
kolinko wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon will push for more automation regardless.

If the costs of labor go up fast, they have much more incentive to automate. When right now they may think it's cheaper to hire humans.

This would only be true if there was a technology to automate and it was just too expensive.

For jobs that Amazon hires people there isn’t a technology to automate right now.

Such technology is being developed (better AI and better robotics), but increasing the budget wouldn’t necessarily speed things up.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#186

Post by [deleted] »

ekianjo wrote: post #108
somehnguy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

> 1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? Why not? If you can double every few years eventually you will get to 100 dollars. And if you claim that everyone needs to make decent wages, who is to define what "decent" is supposed to be? People will always be asking for more, never less. > 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. Even if CEOs gave up th…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#187

Post by whimsicalism »

fatbird wrote: post #150
noisy_boy wrote: post #5

> The ALU may ask you to sign an authorization card or share a QR code to fill out an online authorization card. > This is a legally binding document Ooh scary ... is the employment contract signed by Amazon's employees not legally binding? How is it Amazon's business what their grown-ass employees can or cannot sign? > By signing a card or filling out an online authorization form, you are providing the ALU your pers…

If ALU gets over 50% of employees to sign the card, they can bypass a vote and declare themselves the union and petition for recognition of such to the NLRB (which will grant it unless Amazon can demonstrate malfeasance somehow). It’s a common tactic by unions and a common response by employers is to carefully but thoroughly explain this tactic to employees—-which they’re allowed to do, but it’s totally illegal to sa…

Yeah, if they can get 50% of employees on legal record saying they support the union, it is obvious that they don't need an election.

Your language, IMO, is value-laden. Card-signing is a common "tactic" for unions like the presidential election is a "tactic" for deciding the next president.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#188

Post by bitcharmer »

ekianjo wrote: post #111
ilikehurdles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I do agree in principle that rapidly increasing wages leads to price inflation, your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland (most recently was there on Saturday and will spend the next few days there starting tomorrow.)

> your reference does not relate to my experience in Switzerland Living in Switzerland is clearly way more expensive than living in any of its close neighbors, so please explain me how this is not related to higher wages.

Yes, and the quality of life for a physical worker is much higher than for someone from the US. What's your point?

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#189

Post by Retric »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #171
danaris wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the entire organization's profit margins are not likely to be anywhere near 2-4%.

That is what their 10-K filings say.

They are incentivized to hide investments as operating expenses for tax reasons, which muddles the picture.
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