Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation • Hacker News Board

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#181

Post by cm42 » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #156

javajosh wrote: post #139

>It feels anti human. Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologist…

Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness." Because that's what it takes to ignore abusive levels of inequality and systemic threats to the continued survival of the species. The point is not about what happened in the past, it's about what is still happening now - and how the narratives from the past continue to be used to justify it. Ignoring this is neit…

I'd say "only people who live in their parents basements and haven't put in The Work are able to make comments like this", but then I'd look like the big dumb-dumb.

Complaining without action is equivalent to ignoring it. Sharing the same news headline everyone's already read with your "This is bad!" caption isn't helping. We all know, we can read the words and see it's bad.

Enjoying the world in all its messiness means engaging with it - not this woke schtick of avoiding touching the entire subject because of some trigger word, then spewing generic, inactionable drivel like "did you know the world is bad?"

Yes, we know. We all know. Every single one of us. Welcome to the conversation. Work on yourself so you're not bringing more misery and uselessness into an already-miserable world that needs help.

(Have you tried meditation? /s)

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#182

Post by mudita » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #47

mudita wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own personal experience differed from yours. In a retreat in Burma I observed a lot of traditions, which made it very clear that men had a higher standing than women. When forming a line for going to lunch, the monks were first, then the laymen, then the nuns and then the laywomen; only the monks ate on a raised platform, but not the nuns or laypeople etc. This was not just old books, which nobody cared about, but…

The reason why you saw what you saw is twofold. 1) You did not see nuns. Formal lineage of nuns died in Theravada lineage hundreds of years ago. Women were wearing white robes right? Those are the robes of novices. You need 5? female nuns to ordain a new nun. Sri Lankan monk, Bhante Henepola Gunaratana (aka Bhante G) asked Tibetan nuns so bootstrap the tradition in Theravada, but it's just starting and there is resis…

Yes, thank you for this explanation. I didn’t know that they were not fully ordained, I learned something from you today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thilashin (although one could argue whether to call them nuns or not in English. The wikipedia article still calls them “Burmese Theravada Buddhist nun” and they were called nuns in English where I practiced - I’d say their culture’s concept of “nun” does not map perfect to the Western concept, so details get lost in translation, but your explanation is fundamentally correct and very helpful. )

This definitely makes clear again my lack of deeper understanding of their culture and the hubris of me judging their culture after having been in Burma for only a month.

That being said, there definitely were signs of sexism, women did not have the same standing and we should not close our eyes to this part of Buddhism. I don’t mean “and therefore Buddhism is bad”, but “as a Buddhist I think we can and should strive to do better”.

When Buddhism supports and reinforces misogyny, racism or jingoism from the surrounding culture, this is also a failing of Buddhism.

There are many Buddhist teachers (including Jack Kornfield) who absolutely do emphasise more virtuous and emphatic living as a core teaching and result of Buddhist practice. As a simple example, metta meditation is often advertised as actually helping you be more compassionate in “real life”.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#183

Post by namlem » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

wrycoder wrote: post #176

javajosh wrote: post #139

>It feels anti human. Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologist…

> consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing I’d suggest that it’s not about those things for the accusers themselves. It’s simply about gaining power. And they do it by preying upon “personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing” in other well-meaning people. They’ve discovered that yelling “cultural appropriation” works quite well with people who are constantly looking for other people to feel sorry for - whic…

I don't think so. I think it really is about guilt and shame, because these people just rebranded Catholicism without realizing it. Most of them probably grew up Catholic I bet, and internalized Catholic ideology to such a degree that they can't help but view everything through that lens.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#184

Post by School-Cotton » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:00 PM UTC

stared wrote: post #141

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

Ad cultural appropriation - in the US, it seems that no matter what you do (in some eyes), at the same time, you ignore another culture and appropriate its traditions. For me, there is a distinction: - Adapting, mixing, etc. is (as you said) the bedrock of humanity. It is learning from other cultures. - Claiming that one is doing "real Buddhism" (when it is a version far from any tradition) or serving pepperoni pizza…

> What pissed her off was when people said such a dish was similar to one food prepared by her mother or in her town.

Most people overestimate how old traditional recipes are, anyway. Italians didn’t have tomatoes or potatoes before Columbus; nor did Indians, Thais or Chinese people have chile peppers… is all global cuisine just a huge cultural appropriation from the Mexicans and Peruvians?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#185

Post by namlem » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #156

javajosh wrote: post #139

>It feels anti human. Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologist…

Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness." Because that's what it takes to ignore abusive levels of inequality and systemic threats to the continued survival of the species. The point is not about what happened in the past, it's about what is still happening now - and how the narratives from the past continue to be used to justify it. Ignoring this is neit…

Obsessing over injustices you have no control over is neither normal nor healthy.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#186

Post by supertofu » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #112

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

I had a coworker recently tell me I was culturally appropriating the Buddha (I'm a Buddhist) presumably because I am "from the West". Apart from being one of the most offensive things I've ever been told (before anyone jumps on me for this: I can still observe it as offensive regardless of my attachment to the offense) it confirmed for me that whatever is going on in the US with identity politics has jumped the shark…

Your coworker needs to read the Suttas. Shakyamuni explains again and again and again that the teachings are for everyone.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#187

Post by solardev » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

cyberpunk wrote: post #140

omarfarooq wrote: post #4

How would these people react if they learned that the Buddha said his teachings were to last only 1000 years* if women were not included in the Sangha? And will only last 500 years after women were included?: > “But, Ānanda, if women had not obtained the Going-forth from the home life into homelessness in the Dhamma & Vinaya made known by the Tathāgata, the holy life would have lasted long, the true Dhamma would have…

It was 2500 years ago. We do not care at all. Buddhism is not a philosophy based on a magic book or some unprovable god; it’s just people. The Buddha was a normal person, and absolutely could and did make the kinds of mistakes common in his time. I don’t think that stops it being useful, personally.

I think it depends on your particular fork of Buddhism. It's a pretty open source religion, and some sects and scriptures are more devout to tradition and mysticism than others.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#188

Post by harpic » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:26 PM UTC

robinsoh wrote: post #167

unmole wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does "scripture" mean in this context? Scripture normally means messages 'directly' from the 'Abrahamic God' Oxford disagrees: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... And Hindu scriptures is the example the lexicographers chose. Besides, the Old and New Testaments are traditionally attributed to specific authors. Only the Quran qualifies as scripture by your definition, not even the Had…

> The Vedas are considered revelation from the ultimate reality. As far as I can tell from googling, they are just considered to be stories from Aryans that entered India. "The Vedas are considered the earliest literary record of Indo-Aryan civilization"

No post body was provided.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#189

Post by unmole » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

robinsoh wrote: post #167

unmole wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does "scripture" mean in this context? Scripture normally means messages 'directly' from the 'Abrahamic God' Oxford disagrees: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... And Hindu scriptures is the example the lexicographers chose. Besides, the Old and New Testaments are traditionally attributed to specific authors. Only the Quran qualifies as scripture by your definition, not even the Had…

> The Vedas are considered revelation from the ultimate reality. As far as I can tell from googling, they are just considered to be stories from Aryans that entered India. "The Vedas are considered the earliest literary record of Indo-Aryan civilization"

> As far as I can tell from googling, they are just considered to be stories from Aryans that entered India. "The Vedas are considered the earliest literary record of Indo-Aryan civilization"

I'm guessing you got that quote from: https://www.learnreligions.com/what-are-vedas-1769572 Just a few paragraphs down, it says:

"Tradition has it that humans did not compose the revered compositions of the Vedas, but that God taught the Vedic hymns to the sages, who then handed them down through generations by word of mouth. Another tradition suggests that the hymns were "revealed," to the sages, who were known as the seers or “mantradrasta” of the hymns."

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#190

Post by goodpoint » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 3:46 PM UTC

md_ wrote: post #127

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact same thing can be said about anything. Judaism appropriated pre existing ideas and disrespected them by insisting on a single god. Christianity appropriated judaism and disrespected it by removing covenant practices such as circumcision and adding new ideas such as the kingdom of heaven being available to anyone not just “the chosen people”. Islam appropriated christianity and disrespected it by demoting Je…

In this post alone you've written, what, four times as many words as the length you read into the article? This is peak HN. Edit: I take it back. What's peak HN is that this is the top voted comment on the entire post.

The downvotes are only proving you right. This is what HN has become, pretty much 4chan.